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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Treantmonklvl20" data-source="post: 7176969" data-attributes="member: 55582">I will agree that Meteor Swarm is definitely an outlier - there is no other blast that comes anywhere near the damage at that level.Fireball is a little less clear cut as there are other spells doing similar or equal damage for the level, but it's certainly a standout for blasting, so we can call it an outlier too.My question to you is this: Should they be outliers?Compare Fireball to other 3rd level (non-blast) spells, is it overpowered?  Is it unique in power?  If we are comparing it to 3rd level spells in general, it ceases to become an outlier for power.  I would argue it's not even the best 3rd level spell.Now compare Meteor Swarm to other 9th level (non-blast) spells, is it overpowered?  Is it unique in power?  My opinion on this is clear enough, if you look at my guide, of the 12 9th level spells, I rated 4 higher than Meteor Swarm, which puts it slightly above average.  Not an outlier by any means when we remove the "blasts only" part of the comparison.So if Fireball and Meteor Swarm are not uniquely powered as spells in general, why shouldn't they be a baseline when determining what blasts to consider?</blockquote>