Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7264616" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>Ah, sorry about that then. I've read all of your documents and find many of your assessments insightful. I feel like the general framing might make people think (in a good way), too. So I feel familiar with what a god wizard is.</p><p></p><p></p><p>First, I definitely acknowledge that BS can't compete with martial melee damage at most levels. Prima facie they do a third to half of what a martial does. That's due to a combination of fewer turns attacking (casting buffs), and fewer attacks with each Attack action (or uses a cantrip). Against that, BS more easily stays up in combat against almost any foe appropriate for level and this sustain is... incredible, is probably the right word here. (I generally agree Blur is green, but for BS, it's blue.)</p><p></p><p>Another poster however got me thinking about Haste (instead of Blur), however. In many scenarios, Haste is defensively sufficient. It allows the BS at say 6th level to cast a cantrip, and then take an Attack action for an attack and an off-hand attack. That yields damage close to non-GWM martials, but with considerably better AC. Against some foes means BS will even out-damage GWM martials (by staying standing). Of course, one could object: why not have the party Wizard buff the existing party martial? The obvious flaw in that reasoning is that BS can do this taking up one slot in the party, instead of two. Leaving a slot for whatever seems favoured.</p><p></p><p></p><p>To put it really frankly, the evaluation seemed so off-the-mark that I was grasping for an explanation. Particularly on the build options. Take the Paladin-dip as an example. I agree that on the surface Fighting Style + Smite looks good, but two Wizard levels means more casts, and at every other level access to higher-level spells! A 4th level BS/2nd Paladin is neat. I rate access to 3 more casts, all 3rd level Wizard spells, better than that. What do you think?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Apologies, I forgot that while some readers know the thread in question, others wouldn't. It is here <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?588010-Bladesinger-a-criticism-of-its-design/page35" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?588010-Bladesinger-a-criticism-of-its-design/page35</a>. Regarding my opening post, my understanding became better and more nuanced as the thread evolved. I still feel BS is from a technical point of view, incorrect game design. That not because of "<em>OMG levels of OP</em>" as some posters put it (a view I never held), but because of what it is intended to do and how it goes about doing that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 7264616, member: 71699"] Ah, sorry about that then. I've read all of your documents and find many of your assessments insightful. I feel like the general framing might make people think (in a good way), too. So I feel familiar with what a god wizard is. First, I definitely acknowledge that BS can't compete with martial melee damage at most levels. Prima facie they do a third to half of what a martial does. That's due to a combination of fewer turns attacking (casting buffs), and fewer attacks with each Attack action (or uses a cantrip). Against that, BS more easily stays up in combat against almost any foe appropriate for level and this sustain is... incredible, is probably the right word here. (I generally agree Blur is green, but for BS, it's blue.) Another poster however got me thinking about Haste (instead of Blur), however. In many scenarios, Haste is defensively sufficient. It allows the BS at say 6th level to cast a cantrip, and then take an Attack action for an attack and an off-hand attack. That yields damage close to non-GWM martials, but with considerably better AC. Against some foes means BS will even out-damage GWM martials (by staying standing). Of course, one could object: why not have the party Wizard buff the existing party martial? The obvious flaw in that reasoning is that BS can do this taking up one slot in the party, instead of two. Leaving a slot for whatever seems favoured. To put it really frankly, the evaluation seemed so off-the-mark that I was grasping for an explanation. Particularly on the build options. Take the Paladin-dip as an example. I agree that on the surface Fighting Style + Smite looks good, but two Wizard levels means more casts, and at every other level access to higher-level spells! A 4th level BS/2nd Paladin is neat. I rate access to 3 more casts, all 3rd level Wizard spells, better than that. What do you think? Apologies, I forgot that while some readers know the thread in question, others wouldn't. It is here [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?588010-Bladesinger-a-criticism-of-its-design/page35"]http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?588010-Bladesinger-a-criticism-of-its-design/page35[/URL]. Regarding my opening post, my understanding became better and more nuanced as the thread evolved. I still feel BS is from a technical point of view, incorrect game design. That not because of "[I]OMG levels of OP[/I]" as some posters put it (a view I never held), but because of what it is intended to do and how it goes about doing that. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e
Top