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<blockquote data-quote="Treantmonklvl20" data-source="post: 7468819" data-attributes="member: 55582"><p>Mirage Arcane + Malleable Illusions is quite powerful under the right circumstances, since Mirage Arcane can change the tactile properties of the terrain and provides no saving throw, so yes, you could use Mirage Arcane to create a wall, and yes, that wall would be essentially "real". With Malleable Illusions, you can do this any time after casting the original spell (for up to the 10 day duration). Sounds amazing, game breaking even.</p><p></p><p>However, there are two limitations on this spell, that when combined are pretty dramatic.</p><p></p><p>First (and most importantly), the rules on spellcasting create a <strong>very significant</strong> limitation here. Specifically that if you target an area with a spell, and that area is behind total cover, the spell targets the area on the near side of that cover.</p><p></p><p>Jeremy Crawfod has also clarified that Malleable Illusions can change the properties of an illusion, but does not allow you to move the illusion. <a href="https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/944013851925737472?lang=en" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/944013851925737472?lang=en</a></p><p></p><p>Since Mirage Arcane does not include the ability to move the illusion, that means you are stuck with your initial targeted area.</p><p></p><p>This means, if you are about to enter a dungeon for example, you can cast Major Illusion on the outside of the dungeon, but not on the inside, nor could you move the Mirage Arcane inside after entering.</p><p></p><p>The second is the 10 minute casting time. I mention that second, because you might not realize what a limitation that is if you aren't aware of the first limitation.</p><p></p><p>So the idea that (and I've heard this multiple times before), "before you start the adventure, simply take 10 minutes and cover the area you are about to adventure in with Mirage Arcane." Simply isn't going to fly, unless the entire area you are about to enter isn't behind total cover, and is in range of sight (the range of the spell is sight), which means you can already see your challenges, and they can see you, and they might do something in that 10 minutes you spend casting Mirage Arcane.</p><p></p><p>Of course, if you can't see the challenges, because they are beyond range of sight, or are behind total cover (like in the cave, or dungeon, or house), then the Mirage Arcane you cast will not extend into the area that they are in.</p><p></p><p>So let's see how those limitations affect the implementation:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So first off, I would ask where those enemies were before you started casting the spell? Maybe they came to the area afterwards, which would be fine. Remember, those stairs need to be created somewhere that was targeted by the initial spell casting.</p><p></p><p>Also, although this could be done, it's limited by action economy. To be more precise, you could create a stair case up and climb it. Then the next round, assuming the attackers haven't followed you, you could erase it. Furthermore, hopefully that staircase leads you somewhere solid and supported, as the spell certainly seems to imply that structures and physical object you create absolutely act like normal objects until removed from the area, so you remove bottom stairs when you are still on upper stairs and...well crash.</p><p></p><p>So yes, this could work, but a lot of circumstances have to fit just right. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, this is probably the main use that I would have from the spell. Again though, did these enemies come to the battlefield after you cast the spell? That's fine defensively, but if your enemies aren't coming to you...</p><p></p><p></p><p>Ah, here we are, I suspected this is where we were going with this. You aren't the first one to suggest using this spell on a dungeon (or castle, or cave system, etc), but it doesn't work because of the spellcasting rules as I mention. If we ignore those rules, this spell really does break the game, which is probably the hint we should use to wonder if we are missing something.</p><p></p><p>Now if you are already in the dungeon, and the wall you want to make a door in isn't behind total cover, and you spend ten minutes to cast the spell at that time, yes, you could make a door in the wall, but I'm thinking that's not what you were suggesting.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you mean not to take it as an attack, don't worry, I didn't.</p><p></p><p>As for criticism, I like criticism. Criticism is how you learn.</p><p></p><p>As for my health scare, me too!!!</p><p></p><p>Hope that explains why I'm not as keen on the use of this spell as you are. Don't get me wrong, it's 100% my first pick at level 13, but I'll still anxioiusly be awaiting level 14 for illusiory reality that will allow me to create some "real" illusions without the limits Mirage Arcane has.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Treantmonklvl20, post: 7468819, member: 55582"] Mirage Arcane + Malleable Illusions is quite powerful under the right circumstances, since Mirage Arcane can change the tactile properties of the terrain and provides no saving throw, so yes, you could use Mirage Arcane to create a wall, and yes, that wall would be essentially "real". With Malleable Illusions, you can do this any time after casting the original spell (for up to the 10 day duration). Sounds amazing, game breaking even. However, there are two limitations on this spell, that when combined are pretty dramatic. First (and most importantly), the rules on spellcasting create a [B]very significant[/B] limitation here. Specifically that if you target an area with a spell, and that area is behind total cover, the spell targets the area on the near side of that cover. Jeremy Crawfod has also clarified that Malleable Illusions can change the properties of an illusion, but does not allow you to move the illusion. [url]https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/944013851925737472?lang=en[/url] Since Mirage Arcane does not include the ability to move the illusion, that means you are stuck with your initial targeted area. This means, if you are about to enter a dungeon for example, you can cast Major Illusion on the outside of the dungeon, but not on the inside, nor could you move the Mirage Arcane inside after entering. The second is the 10 minute casting time. I mention that second, because you might not realize what a limitation that is if you aren't aware of the first limitation. So the idea that (and I've heard this multiple times before), "before you start the adventure, simply take 10 minutes and cover the area you are about to adventure in with Mirage Arcane." Simply isn't going to fly, unless the entire area you are about to enter isn't behind total cover, and is in range of sight (the range of the spell is sight), which means you can already see your challenges, and they can see you, and they might do something in that 10 minutes you spend casting Mirage Arcane. Of course, if you can't see the challenges, because they are beyond range of sight, or are behind total cover (like in the cave, or dungeon, or house), then the Mirage Arcane you cast will not extend into the area that they are in. So let's see how those limitations affect the implementation: So first off, I would ask where those enemies were before you started casting the spell? Maybe they came to the area afterwards, which would be fine. Remember, those stairs need to be created somewhere that was targeted by the initial spell casting. Also, although this could be done, it's limited by action economy. To be more precise, you could create a stair case up and climb it. Then the next round, assuming the attackers haven't followed you, you could erase it. Furthermore, hopefully that staircase leads you somewhere solid and supported, as the spell certainly seems to imply that structures and physical object you create absolutely act like normal objects until removed from the area, so you remove bottom stairs when you are still on upper stairs and...well crash. So yes, this could work, but a lot of circumstances have to fit just right. Yes, this is probably the main use that I would have from the spell. Again though, did these enemies come to the battlefield after you cast the spell? That's fine defensively, but if your enemies aren't coming to you... Ah, here we are, I suspected this is where we were going with this. You aren't the first one to suggest using this spell on a dungeon (or castle, or cave system, etc), but it doesn't work because of the spellcasting rules as I mention. If we ignore those rules, this spell really does break the game, which is probably the hint we should use to wonder if we are missing something. Now if you are already in the dungeon, and the wall you want to make a door in isn't behind total cover, and you spend ten minutes to cast the spell at that time, yes, you could make a door in the wall, but I'm thinking that's not what you were suggesting. If you mean not to take it as an attack, don't worry, I didn't. As for criticism, I like criticism. Criticism is how you learn. As for my health scare, me too!!! Hope that explains why I'm not as keen on the use of this spell as you are. Don't get me wrong, it's 100% my first pick at level 13, but I'll still anxioiusly be awaiting level 14 for illusiory reality that will allow me to create some "real" illusions without the limits Mirage Arcane has. [/QUOTE]
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