Treasure Allocation Help

[dingle]

I have recently created an NPC/Monster generator D&D 3.5 « Dingles Games it allows additiion of character levels to monsters. My next step is to automatically alolocate treasure to a monster. My quesion is how much treasure to allocate?
If you add 6 levels of barbarian to a Hill Giant you get a CR 13 monster, now do I give the Giant
1. The basic treasure of a 6th level barbarian (table 4-12 DMs guile), plus random treasure for a CR13.
2. The basic Treasure for a 13 level barbarian.
3. Just random treasure for a CR 13 monster.
4 or a combination of the above.

My own feeling is to go with (1), but I would like to get it right so I thought it best to ask an open question to all at Enworld.
(PS thanks to all who have had a play with the generator ).

 

[DarkelvenSFi]

Great work. I know first hand how hard it is to get something like this set up (I've got one of my own); but it does handle the treasure.

I calculated the treasure separately for both character and monster, and just combined them. I figured the creature did effectively meet both aspects of the treasure delivery. An issue I faced is with monsters without the capacity for wearing/using magic items; such as a lute of binding, or bracers of nondetection.

I added a field to the monsters stating whether they were humanoid (could use items) or whether they were not. This helped plan out which items to pass over. Another issue is whether monsters with 'treasure = none' should receive items for the class. Generally, those that cannot use items or were disinclined to want them, were those that had 'no treasure'. This then helps determine, if the creatures picks up a full plate armour +5, if it can wear it (and have that bonus to AC (and deduction to Dex Bonus) included in the stats.

For the class, I took a look at the DMG and saw what a NPC of that level would have in gold. I then rolled through the magic item list randomly, grabbing what was came up if the character had enough gold, or discarding it if it was too expensive or not suitable. Once all the gold was used (less than 4,000), the system stopped. Then it went through and filled any gaps in armour and weapon slots that magic items hadn't filled; so if the character pulled a +2 battleaxe, but no armour, the system decides on what armour is suitable for the class and buys it. The same for clothing, misc items (like food/tents/etc). Any left over gold is added to the creatures inventory.


Another option you might want to look at is; firstly saving the character to the database so others can use/save useful creations.

But more importantly, one thing I had a lot of fun with was turning the creature into a zombie or vampire. It's quite simple to make the necessary changes to get your level 12 barbarion greater barghest and turn it into a vampire to give it that extra edge.

My next goal is to get a druid animal shapes system sorted out. So I can simply save a players character to the system and when he chooses a shape, I can spit out the relevant stats for that shape.

But I'm also part way through inserting all the magic items from the magic item compendium, and will likely do the same for the spell compendium. It just takes a lot of time/effort.

Hope this helps..

 

[dingle]

Yes thanks this does help me a lot. I am planning in adding in templates and allowing to save the monsters online. At present I'm typing in all the spells from PHB (not much fun). I know what you mean about time and effort.
I could quite easily add in random treasure as I've already created the treasure tables (but with some rather bad spelling mistakes to fix), but not got the rules to adjust the monsters stats for them yet, (similar rules to the feats though so not too hard a jump, just more typing).
I was thinking about having a go at prestige classes and the templates as the next stage (while coming to terms with the treasure). I also wanted to add a feature where the DM could change the treasure. Lots to do and not enough time....

 

[Elethiomel]

If you're going with 1) your creature creator is giving out more treasure than a party would get from a CR13 encounter, be it an NPC or a monster. Thus I think that that option is "wrong".
2) and 3) are both equally valid from a treasure-per-encounter standpoint (though NPCs tend to give more loot than monsters; this is somewhat made up for by the rare lucky treasure table roll). I think a radio button style selection between those two options would work well. It would tailor the monster to what the GM wants it to be. Is it an NPC who has been able to selectively trade/barter for equipment? Go with the 13th level barbarian equipment. Is it a squatter in a ruin who picked up whatever was to hand and piled it up? Go with CR 13 treasure table roll. etc.

 

[DarkelvenSFi]

I was hoping to do some prestige classes eventually as well. It'll just be a step by step process; one at a time. But I think including the additional spells and magic items is more important to my players at the moment; rather than facing a larger variety of foes.

I've already inserted the spells from the PHB, but in name only. I'll likely do this for the Spell Compendium as well; so my system can draw on those spells when creating an NPC or spell casting monster. I do have them in categories according to offensive, defensive, or special (such as healing), so the NPC's can properly 'pick' a variety of useful spells.


One thing I'd love to have during my sessions is a projector that points down at the table; showing the map (with grid lines and all). When the players walk around, I can 'clickity' and show a trap they just sprung. I'd love to be able to show an image of the beast their fighting, or an overhead view of the land, or show plot elements that they have to solve. Would make things much easier.

It's a nice setup like this (all of it) that would make a gaming center run smoothly. Having an entire campaign mapped out with encounters, npcs and monsters ready made, cities, shops, items for sale, guilds and groups and affiliations, plot hooks, sub quests and activities.. the list goes on. It's something I've got mostly done; expanding on constantly. Something that could be used by others later; imagine getting a whole huge campaign - or campaigns within a massive campaign (ready to take characters of any level) with everything sorted out according to whatever the players decided they wanted to do.

If they want to speak to this person; click, or visit this shop or guild; click. They want to take on the barghest quest; click. They decide they want to visit another plane; click. Everything sorted out and ready to fly.

It's a nice dream.. maybe it'll work out.

 

[Jhaelen]

If you add 6 levels of barbarian to a Hill Giant you get a CR 13 monster, now do I give the Giant
1. The basic treasure of a 6th level barbarian (table 4-12 DMs guile), plus random treasure for a CR13.
2. The basic Treasure for a 13 level barbarian.
3. Just random treasure for a CR 13 monster.
4 or a combination of the above.

My own feeling is to go with (1), but I would like to get it right so I thought it best to ask an open question to all at Enworld.
(PS thanks to all who have had a play with the generator ).

Officially, it would be none of these. According to Monster Manuals 3-5 a monster with class levels gets treasure like an NPC with a level equal to the monster's CR.

I guess, if possible and it isn't too much effort, your tool should offer several different options.

As an aside: Is anyone still using the DMG method to determine random treasure?
The MIC rules are so much better, I can hardly see why anyone would still stick with the DMG rules (unless they don't have access to the MIC, that is).

 

[dingle]

One thing I'd love to have during my sessions is a projector that points down at the table; showing the map (with grid lines and all). When the players walk around, I can 'clickity' and show a trap they just sprung. I'd love to be able to show an image of the beast their fighting, or an overhead view of the land, or show plot elements that they have to solve. Would make things much easier.

It's a nice setup like this (all of it) that would make a gaming center run smoothly. Having an entire campaign mapped out with encounters, npcs and monsters ready made, cities, shops, items for sale, guilds and groups and affiliations, plot hooks, sub quests and activities.. the list goes on. It's something I've got mostly done; expanding on constantly. Something that could be used by others later; imagine getting a whole huge campaign - or campaigns within a massive campaign (ready to take characters of any level) with everything sorted out according to whatever the players decided they wanted to do.

If they want to speak to this person; click, or visit this shop or guild; click. They want to take on the barghest quest; click. They decide they want to visit another plane; click. Everything sorted out and ready to fly.

It's a nice dream.. maybe it'll work out.

You are certainly a visionary. I think things like this will certainly be possible with the increasing power and flexability of new technology, I imagine playing with 3d holograms in 10 years and all us oldies complaining about the good old days of metal figures.....

 

[dingle]

If you're going with 1) your creature creator is giving out more treasure than a party would get from a CR13 encounter, be it an NPC or a monster. Thus I think that that option is "wrong".
2) and 3) are both equally valid from a treasure-per-encounter standpoint (though NPCs tend to give more loot than monsters; this is somewhat made up for by the rare lucky treasure table roll). I think a radio button style selection between those two options would work well. It would tailor the monster to what the GM wants it to be. Is it an NPC who has been able to selectively trade/barter for equipment? Go with the 13th level barbarian equipment. Is it a squatter in a ruin who picked up whatever was to hand and piled it up? Go with CR 13 treasure table roll. etc.

Officially, it would be none of these. According to Monster Manuals 3-5 a monster with class levels gets treasure like an NPC with a level equal to the monster's CR.

I guess, if possible and it isn't too much effort, your tool should offer several different options.

As an aside: Is anyone still using the DMG method to determine random treasure?
The MIC rules are so much better, I can hardly see why anyone would still stick with the DMG rules (unless they don't have access to the MIC, that is).

From these helpfull suggestion/answers it looks as if the best idea is to allow a selection of either
1 Base equipment (Based on DMG CR)
2 Just random Based on CR
3 Base equipment (Based on Char level) & Random based on Monsters original CR.
4 .....
All in all allow the DMs to decide what is best for his adventure and to enable them to fine tune as applicable.
Thanks for your help everyone.