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<blockquote data-quote="Thyrwyn" data-source="post: 4091618" data-attributes="member: 12354">There is a disconnect between the impact of being tripped in the real world and the effect of being Tripped in D&amp;D.&nbsp; What are the effects of being Tripped?&nbsp; What are the penalties for being Prone (which I am assuming is the at least one of the effects of being Tripped)?&nbsp; Are there any other effects?&nbsp; Until we have definitive answers to those questions, we can't really address whether or not everyone should be able to do it whenever they feel like it.4e in general is moving away from &quot;these specific conditions have to exist in order for. . .&quot; to (as others have noted) giving the authorial or narrative power to the player.&nbsp; The Player decides when conditions are right for them to shine - it makes their successes more relevent.&nbsp; Rather than provide rules that allow you to attempt &quot;special&quot; maneuvers at a reduced chance of success; they limit how often you can attempt them.&nbsp; But they are giving the player the ability to choose when they are relevent.&nbsp; Look at the the ranger daily &quot;Split the Tree&quot; - same chance to hit as one of his at-will exploits and double the base damage to two targets!&nbsp; Other games would severely penalize the ability and let you do it as often as you want: the net effect in terms of damage done, would probably be about the same.&nbsp; The net effect in terms of the Player's sense of participation and accomplishment is not, though.&nbsp; The 'penalty' model leads to &quot;New round?&nbsp; I Split the Tree again . . .&quot; with decreased return (&quot;I would have at least done some damage with a normal attack&quot;).&nbsp; The 4e model gives the player a greater sense of commitment (&quot;I really need to take those guys down. . . .I Split the Tree!&quot;) without the downside.I know this is a bad word around here, but i am going to say it anyway:&nbsp; Let the players do cool things - but make it cool when they do.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thyrwyn, post: 4091618, member: 12354"] There is a disconnect between the impact of being tripped in the real world and the effect of being Tripped in D&D. What are the effects of being Tripped? What are the penalties for being Prone (which I am assuming is the at least one of the effects of being Tripped)? Are there any other effects? Until we have definitive answers to those questions, we can't really address whether or not everyone should be able to do it whenever they feel like it. 4e in general is moving away from "these specific conditions have to exist in order for. . ." to (as others have noted) giving the authorial or narrative power to the player. The Player decides when conditions are right for them to shine - it makes their successes more relevent. Rather than provide rules that allow you to attempt "special" maneuvers at a reduced chance of success; they limit how often you can attempt them. But they are giving the player the ability to choose when they are relevent. Look at the the ranger daily "Split the Tree" - same chance to hit as one of his at-will exploits and double the base damage to two targets! Other games would severely penalize the ability and let you do it as often as you want: the net effect in terms of damage done, would probably be about the same. The net effect in terms of the Player's sense of participation and accomplishment is not, though. The 'penalty' model leads to "New round? I Split the Tree again . . ." with decreased return ("I would have at least done some damage with a normal attack"). The 4e model gives the player a greater sense of commitment ("I really need to take those guys down. . . .I Split the Tree!") without the downside. I know this is a bad word around here, but i am going to say it anyway: Let the players do cool things - but make it cool when they do. [/QUOTE]

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