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Trip is an Encounter Power now
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<blockquote data-quote="Bagpuss" data-source="post: 4091858" data-attributes="member: 3987"><p>Right and neither does your 4th Ed Hero, he is still capable of tripping a guy (just not right now as the rules don't let), same with Jackie Chan he still could trip the guy, he just can't right now because it would be boring and repetitive, because any half decent fight choreographer won't let him, maybe in the next battle more likely in the next film.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Those reasons are arbitrary and unrealistic, they are the fight choreographer deciding what is interesting, and repeating the same move isn't. Similarly in 4E the character CAN trip more than once, they just don't because the rules limit them for a variety of reasons (it's boring and unbalanced). There is no disconnect D&D is reflecting the genre, so it should reflect the fact using the same tactic isn't permitted because it's boring and would not occur in the genre.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So Jackie Chan can't trip people and Legolas can't Split the tree, every shot of the film (even though in reality he could) because it would be boring and repetitive, so an arbitrary and unrealistic limit is imposed by the director/fight choreographer to once a film.</p><p></p><p>Your 4E fighter can't trip people and your 4E Ranger can't Split the tree, every round in the combat (even though potentially he could) because it would be unbalanced and repetitive, so an arbitrary and unrealistic limit is imposed by the per encounter/daily limit to once a fight/day.</p><p></p><p>Seems like a very accurate simulation of genre conventions to me. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/paranoid.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":uhoh:" title="Paranoid :uhoh:" data-shortname=":uhoh:" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not seeing a difference between the two myself.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Which is what the per encounter and daily mechanic achieve. You have the potential to us an ability once per fight or one per film (as it were) at a key moment decided by the player.</p><p></p><p>You as the player gain the role of fight choreographer (or at least your role in it), you can decide when your signature move best suits the action. You know you can't use it all the time, because it would be boring and unbalanced. Nobody wants to see Legolas shoot every orc through the eye at a 1000 paces, even if he can, it wouldn't be interesting.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But you can't do that, and still reflect the genre, 3rd Ed pretty much proved as much. </p><p></p><p>- If you make it good in a limited number of circumstances then it becomes a rule you have to look up on those rare occasions. BAD. </p><p>- Control of those circumstances is either in the hands of the player, which gets you Spiked Chain, Combat Reflex, Improved Trip builds to exploit. BAD.</p><p>- Or in the hands of the DM in which case the player resents the fact the DM hasn't given him an opportunity in the last three sessions. BAD.</p><p>- It might be possibly to some how have this circumstances complete random (I don't know how, without seeming arbitrary again), but then you'll get games where it randomly always comes up and your trip monkey walks every fight. BAD. Or it never comes up, and your trip monkey resent his character investment in tripping. BAD.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You manage to suspend disbelief when Legolas uses a stops Spliting the Tree after Fellowship of the Ring, even though it would be really handy at Helms Deep. It's a convention of the genre that killer moves only occur once a fight (encounter) or film (daily). You manage to suspend disbelief in the movies.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bagpuss, post: 4091858, member: 3987"] Right and neither does your 4th Ed Hero, he is still capable of tripping a guy (just not right now as the rules don't let), same with Jackie Chan he still could trip the guy, he just can't right now because it would be boring and repetitive, because any half decent fight choreographer won't let him, maybe in the next battle more likely in the next film. Those reasons are arbitrary and unrealistic, they are the fight choreographer deciding what is interesting, and repeating the same move isn't. Similarly in 4E the character CAN trip more than once, they just don't because the rules limit them for a variety of reasons (it's boring and unbalanced). There is no disconnect D&D is reflecting the genre, so it should reflect the fact using the same tactic isn't permitted because it's boring and would not occur in the genre. So Jackie Chan can't trip people and Legolas can't Split the tree, every shot of the film (even though in reality he could) because it would be boring and repetitive, so an arbitrary and unrealistic limit is imposed by the director/fight choreographer to once a film. Your 4E fighter can't trip people and your 4E Ranger can't Split the tree, every round in the combat (even though potentially he could) because it would be unbalanced and repetitive, so an arbitrary and unrealistic limit is imposed by the per encounter/daily limit to once a fight/day. Seems like a very accurate simulation of genre conventions to me. :uhoh: Not seeing a difference between the two myself. Which is what the per encounter and daily mechanic achieve. You have the potential to us an ability once per fight or one per film (as it were) at a key moment decided by the player. You as the player gain the role of fight choreographer (or at least your role in it), you can decide when your signature move best suits the action. You know you can't use it all the time, because it would be boring and unbalanced. Nobody wants to see Legolas shoot every orc through the eye at a 1000 paces, even if he can, it wouldn't be interesting. But you can't do that, and still reflect the genre, 3rd Ed pretty much proved as much. - If you make it good in a limited number of circumstances then it becomes a rule you have to look up on those rare occasions. BAD. - Control of those circumstances is either in the hands of the player, which gets you Spiked Chain, Combat Reflex, Improved Trip builds to exploit. BAD. - Or in the hands of the DM in which case the player resents the fact the DM hasn't given him an opportunity in the last three sessions. BAD. - It might be possibly to some how have this circumstances complete random (I don't know how, without seeming arbitrary again), but then you'll get games where it randomly always comes up and your trip monkey walks every fight. BAD. Or it never comes up, and your trip monkey resent his character investment in tripping. BAD. You manage to suspend disbelief when Legolas uses a stops Spliting the Tree after Fellowship of the Ring, even though it would be really handy at Helms Deep. It's a convention of the genre that killer moves only occur once a fight (encounter) or film (daily). You manage to suspend disbelief in the movies. [/QUOTE]
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