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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Trip question that's bothered me for years
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<blockquote data-quote="TheOverlord" data-source="post: 5177086" data-attributes="member: 83747"><p><strong>From the Source</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I see where you are going with this and while there has been a lot of speculation about interpretation, none of that is not necessary. I have a direct answer to your question from the horse's mouth. Trip attacks are addressed in this <a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060307a" target="_blank">article</a> by the man himself, Skip Williams. But there is one paragraph in particular that answers your question and dilemma very specifically.</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><em>"The rules don't come right out and say it, but you use your melee touch attack to get a purchase on your foe (so you can throw, push, or pull him down). The melee touch attack provokes an attack of opportunity from your foe." -- excerpt from Rules of the Game Article by Skip Williams</em></p><p></p><p>The intent here is revealed in full. To get the leverage over your foe enough to actually trip they require a melee touch - not a melee attack. </p><p></p><p>The confusion comes from the pairing of the statement make a melee touch attack and then equating unarmed strikes...which by definition are not melee touches at all. <strong>No where do the rules state either in improved trip or trip attack that you can make a melee attack (unarmed or otherwise) to start the trip. </strong> In fact, it explicitly states that it must be a melee touch.</p><p></p><p>This to me seems very similar to why creatures need Improved Grab to land a melee attack and start a grapple instead of a melee touch. </p><p></p><p>However, there is no such option for tripping. Your options include using a weapon to make the melee touch which is a workaround for the sole purpose of avoiding the AoO. Or taking the feat which is the other explicit work around. The Improved Unarmed Strike feat does not allow you start a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity even though you are considered armed b/c a melee touch is not "unarmed strike" it is just a melee touch which is its own creature entirely.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheOverlord, post: 5177086, member: 83747"] [b]From the Source[/b] I see where you are going with this and while there has been a lot of speculation about interpretation, none of that is not necessary. I have a direct answer to your question from the horse's mouth. Trip attacks are addressed in this [URL="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060307a"]article[/URL] by the man himself, Skip Williams. But there is one paragraph in particular that answers your question and dilemma very specifically. [INDENT][I]"The rules don't come right out and say it, but you use your melee touch attack to get a purchase on your foe (so you can throw, push, or pull him down). The melee touch attack provokes an attack of opportunity from your foe." -- excerpt from Rules of the Game Article by Skip Williams[/I][/INDENT] The intent here is revealed in full. To get the leverage over your foe enough to actually trip they require a melee touch - not a melee attack. The confusion comes from the pairing of the statement make a melee touch attack and then equating unarmed strikes...which by definition are not melee touches at all. [B]No where do the rules state either in improved trip or trip attack that you can make a melee attack (unarmed or otherwise) to start the trip. [/B] In fact, it explicitly states that it must be a melee touch. This to me seems very similar to why creatures need Improved Grab to land a melee attack and start a grapple instead of a melee touch. However, there is no such option for tripping. Your options include using a weapon to make the melee touch which is a workaround for the sole purpose of avoiding the AoO. Or taking the feat which is the other explicit work around. The Improved Unarmed Strike feat does not allow you start a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity even though you are considered armed b/c a melee touch is not "unarmed strike" it is just a melee touch which is its own creature entirely. [/QUOTE]
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Trip question that's bothered me for years
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