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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jeff Wilder" data-source="post: 2462875" data-attributes="member: 5122">Well, let's compare it with other combat-modifier trade-offs.  Can you fight defensively, taking the -4 penalty to attack before you're engaged in melee or ranged combat?  Can you charge, taking the -2 penalty to AC, before deciding whether to attack?  Can you Rapid Shot, taking the -2 penalty to hit on the first shot, and then decide not to take the benefit?  And so on.  Penalties are the payment for benefits.  If you want the benefits at any time during your turn, you pay the penalty before the combat action is resolved.See, Hypersmurf says that TWF penalties aren't tied to TWF benefits, unlike every other combat-mod trade-off in the game.  He says that TWF penalties are instead tied to whether or not you're wielding an off-hand weapon.By contrast, I say that whether or not you're wielding an off-hand weapon is a moot point; it's a redundancy, because if you weren't wielding an off-hand weapon -- or intending to wield one at some point in the round -- you're not even going to be in the section on TWF.  It's a requirement, sure, at some point, but it's an obvious, meaningless requirement, like saying that you can't get Power Attack's double-damage to a two-handed weapon unless you're wielding a two-handed weapon.  The meaningful determination of whether you can get the benefit of TWF is whether you're willing to pay the penalties."Fight like this" doesn't mean "wield two weapons," it means "accept the option of an additional off-hand attack."  And if you choose to fight like that, you have to accept the penalties.</blockquote>

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