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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Squire James" data-source="post: 315286" data-attributes="member: 548">Excuse me, but this is my first "dissect other post" post.  I hope it isn't TOO annoying!I'm pretty sure you misread empower. It doesn't multply the damage dice, turning 10d6 into 15d6, it multiplies the total damage. No, I just used the increased number of dice to compare them to existing spells without some sort of "doubling" mechanic (like Meteor Swarm).  I apologize for not stating that I was doing that.For instance, Delayed Blast Fireball with it's 20d8 damage empowered 5 times to make it a 17th level spell (I'm just supposing since my books are not out), that it will do 20d8 x 3.5 damage.Average damage of 80 x 3.5 would give you 280 damage.... not as insane as 150d8 for 600 damage... Hell your horrid wilting at 25d8 averages 100 damage x 6.5 gives you 650 damage... but your talking a 20'th level slot...I won't say your houserule is a bit much, but with the rarity of feats, your hurting your wizards.I always tended to assume feats did NOT stack unless otherwise noted.  So the "house rule" part of my system is allowing someone to take Empower Spell more than once at all!  I'm pretty sure the core D&D rules never intended Empower Spell to be anything more than a simple +50% add to variable effects (and only the DICE on variable effects, so those +1 per die bonuses on Magic Missiles and Bull's Strength are not affected, BTW, but like many others I tend to let this part slide).My contention is that Empower Spell, being the only metamagic feat that can be efficiently "self-stacked" like this, is too powerful in itself to allow +50%, +100%, +150%, or more to spell damage.  It mostly invalidates Twin Spell (that "mostly" in there because Twin Spell has some other uses like forcing 2 saving throws), and almost completely obliterates the Intensify Spell epic feat.  All this for something a Wizard can take at 3rd level (and can start employing at 5th)?A level 20 Wizard has 11 feats (don't forget those bonus feats every 5 levels), 12 if he's human.  He can easily afford to have Empower Spell x7 and 4-5 more feats if that's what he wants to concentrate on.  Sure, he's probably a bit less versatile than that same guy with Greater Spell Penetration, Persistent Spell, Greater Spell Focus, etc.  It's a fair price to pay for all that potential power IMO.</blockquote>

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