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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 947981" data-attributes="member: 2013">I think you have hit the nail on the head here.Feats, to me, are one of the most improperly used features of the d20 game.  And I speak as a d20 publisher (a small one, but a d20 publisher nonetheless).I try to divide my thinking on "how can this be done" into four camps:1.) Clear-cut Skill Use2.) Special Maneuver/Technique - anyone can try this, but it's hard to do - apply a DC to a skill roll, ability check, attack roll, or some combination of the above.  This should not be a Feat, though a Feat that aids you in pulling it off or mitigates some of the negative circumstances associated with failure is okay.3.) "Non-magical" special training - This, to me, should be covered by Feats.  You flat-out can't even attempt it without training because it's either too hard or it's a "breaks the normal rules" (a good example of this, to me, is Whirlwind Attack - it is far enough away from the normal "attack progression rules" as to need a SINGLE separate mechanic).  Metamagic feats also fall into this category - it's a form of of "mundane" training even though the Feat's effects apply to spells.4.) "Magical" special training - This is stuff that you simply cannot do without the aid of magic.  A Supernatural ability is the quintessential example.  For instance, learning how to "phase through a wall" to attack your quarry as an assassin - no amount of mundane training would let you do this.  I favor making these (a) class abilities of a Prestige Class or (b) things for which a direct XP expenditure is required (similar to crafting a magic item).In my view, if you could even attempt something without special training, it should be a maneuver.  For instance, "Attacking an opponent's weapon" - you can do it without special training, but training makes it easier.  Deflecting an arrow with a Reflex save - this falls slightly outside the "normal" system (in which AC already incorporates the dodge/deflect ability of the target) - so as a single mechanic outside the normal system, this deserves a Feat.  The reason that the untrained character can't try it is that it's already assumed in Armor Class calculation.Hurling a longsword - certainly this could be tried IRL without training... you don't need a Feat for it, you just need a mechanic (e.g., 5' increment, -4 nonproficiency penalty for no proficiency in "thrown longsword").  However a "longsword thrower" Feat (which eliminates the -4 penalty and increases the increment to 10') is in order.Basically, I wish publishers would look at something and ask, "could normal Joe Schmoe try it with a reasonable chance of success?"  If the answer is, "yes," it needs to be a maneuver, not a Feat... and the Feat should make the maneuver "easier to do."  Making that distinction alone would go a long way.--The Sigil</blockquote>

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