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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5381173" data-attributes="member: 18280">I am aware of it; I am also aware of other translations.  Which is why I said it depends upon the translation.  It may also depend upon Grendel's "Glove of Holding"!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Again, this argument conflates meanings of "fantastic" and "mundane".  No one is claiming that a fighter should not be able to perform better than the average man; in this case "mundane" is opposed to "magical" or "supernatural".  It does not mean "hum-drum" or "run-of-the-mill".Any argument that relies upon the "hum-drum" or "run-of-the-mill" meaning of "mundane" is, therefore, a straw man.  Easy to set up, easy to knock down, and wholly irrelevant.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />This is exactly correct.  Some things that seem fantastic can, and do, occur in the real world.  Some things that do not seem fantastic are, in point of fact, pretty darn unlikely in the real world.  I've known players who imagine that building a cart can be done in an afternoon without tools or materials, for example.  I would call that a pretty fantastic feat!I would say that this is a problem with the system, if and only if you want a game in which it is possible to play Conan.  I have a sneaking suspicion that, in most D&D worlds, there should actually be fewer spellslingers than there typically are, and even fewer at high levels.  Smart money would have the Conans and James Bonds killing them before they become a threat!  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />I would point out that there is a difference between the fantastic inherent in the setting (at Grendel Lake, you can breathe the water) and in the character (you can always breathe the water).  Likewise, there is a difference between the fantastic being inherently pervasive in the setting (on Algol, the water is breathable) or in the character (on Barsoom, only John Carter can leap about like a cricket).Certainly, if that is what is desired, there is no reason not to allow mundane (non-supernatural) characters from doing things that would seem fantastic from our perspective, at least to the level of Conan.  When you get to the level of Batman, though.......<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/paranoid.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":uhoh:" title="Paranoid    :uhoh:" data-shortname=":uhoh:" />Obviously, it depends upon the desires of the people involved with the game.  There is nothing wrong, and quite a bit right, with ensuring that the game you are playing is the game you want to be playing.  There is nothing wrong with wahoo! fighters if you want wahoo! fighters.  Likewise, there is nothing wrong with having other options if you want those options.RC</blockquote>

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