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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5381442" data-attributes="member: 87792">Wandless casting is explicitly taught in the later books.&nbsp; Take thirteen year old Harry Potter's wand away and he's helpless.&nbsp; Take eighteen year old Harry's wand and he's just impeded and probably about as powerful as thirteen year old Harry with a wand.&nbsp;&nbsp;It is powerful.&nbsp; But powerful and overpowered are two different things.&nbsp; Multiply all spellcasting times in 3E by a factor of ten and magic will still be powerful.&nbsp; And so will mages.&nbsp; But weapon wielders will have much more of a place.&nbsp;&nbsp;Of course it does.&nbsp; But if there's any downtime at all it's easy to almost eliminate the limits here in 3e.&nbsp; Those obscure utility spells you generally don't prepare but when they are useful are really useful?&nbsp; Scrolls.&nbsp; Those that you want to cast three or more times per day?&nbsp; Wands.&nbsp;&nbsp;A given.&nbsp; But the real question comes if the casters buff each other or don't buff at all rather than turning their spells over to the fighter for use.&nbsp; Is that what is best for the party?&nbsp; If the answer is yes, then buffing the fighters and rogues is not working as a team.&nbsp; It's holding a pity party for the poor meatshields and thieves.&nbsp;&nbsp;Cooperation is not holding a pity party.&nbsp; It's working together to ensure the success as a group.&nbsp; Even from the earliest levels clerics make better meatshields than fighters - they come with almost as many hit points and the ability to heal themselves and other people.&nbsp; And can wear the same armour.&nbsp;&nbsp;Also prices to be paid if they do.&nbsp; Like a share of the loot.&nbsp; And arguably a less effective party overall.&nbsp;&nbsp;Good job they are the people who can do that then.&nbsp; Because the fighters certainly can't!&nbsp; And can't fly either.&nbsp; And can't even really tank without the mages supporting them.&nbsp;&nbsp;Always.&nbsp; And have spares.&nbsp; Getting captured and chained up sucks.&nbsp; But the fighters aren't better off with their hands chained.&nbsp; At that point it's the bards and the rogues who are the useful guys.&nbsp; Also most high level wizards IME have a spare spellbook that's not kept with them...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5381442, member: 87792"] Wandless casting is explicitly taught in the later books. Take thirteen year old Harry Potter's wand away and he's helpless. Take eighteen year old Harry's wand and he's just impeded and probably about as powerful as thirteen year old Harry with a wand. It [I]is[/I] powerful. But powerful and overpowered are two different things. Multiply all spellcasting times in 3E by a factor of ten and magic will [I]still[/I] be powerful. And so will mages. But weapon wielders will have much more of a place. Of course it does. But if there's any downtime at all it's easy to almost eliminate the limits here in 3e. Those obscure utility spells you generally don't prepare but when they are useful are [I]really[/I] useful? Scrolls. Those that you want to cast three or more times per day? Wands. A given. But the real question comes if the casters buff each other or don't buff at all rather than turning their spells over to the fighter for use. Is that what is best for the party? If the answer is yes, then buffing the fighters and rogues is not working as a team. It's holding a pity party for the poor meatshields and thieves. Cooperation is not holding a pity party. It's working together to ensure the success as a group. Even from the earliest levels clerics make better meatshields than fighters - they come with almost as many hit points and the ability to heal themselves and other people. And can wear the same armour. Also prices to be paid if they do. Like a share of the loot. And arguably a less effective party overall. Good job they are the people who can do that then. Because the fighters certainly can't! And can't fly either. And can't even really tank without the mages supporting them. Always. And have spares. Getting captured and chained up [I]sucks[/I]. But the fighters aren't better off with their hands chained. At that point it's the bards and the rogues who are the useful guys. Also most high level wizards IME have a spare spellbook that's not kept with them... [/QUOTE]

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