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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5383553" data-attributes="member: 87792">I disagree.  I believe what needs to die is that the fighter or barbarian must be the big dumb warrior rather than that the fighter can be.  Big dumb warriors can be fun to play. The trouble is it's a lot more than "enforce those limitations" that's needed in 3.X (AD&D it's not so clear).  What's needed is to impose further limits like anti-magic fields.   If a DM wants he can screw over any character in the game, no questions asked.  That you actually need to do so for balance and fairness is evidence that the game was badly designed.  A wand of Cure Light Wounds takes 1 day and 375gp to make, and changes campaigns.  You seem to be indicating that a DM who ever gives the PCs a day to rest and repair or gives them enough money to be able to buy non-magical plate armour is asking for trouble.  At that point it's a system failing.  Now me, I don't see anything wrong with the odd week or month off to help prevent PTSD in the characters.  (There isn't much time when the rubber meets the road, granted.  But there is time between apocalyptic threats).  By that argument full round attacks take no time at all either.  You're confusing the map with the territory here.  Spells in 3e normally have a casting time of 1 standard action.  If we make it 10 standard actions (5 would do) then things get interesting.  The wizard can have all except one standard action of the casting of one spell performed, and gets this spell in the opening round to set the battle.  And after that it's cold steel that controls the outcome of the fight (give or take people taken down by the wizard).  Yet this way wizard spells can still be extremely powerful (as e.g. MoxieFu wants) without making the fighters irrelevant.  4e Essentials Knight and Slayer seem to keep up without being more than guys with lumpy metal things. IIRC, a warblade with Tiger Claw, Iron Heart, and White Raven schools would be fine (if you took the pogo stick away from Tiger Claw).  Most of the absurd schools were the property of the Swordsage - and part of his shtick was that sort of nonsense.  (The other absurd school was, of course, the Crusader's "I'm a paladin who actually works" Devoted Spirit school).  The bad one here is Come And Get It.  Which is always brought up and for a reason...  But I seriously see no reason why you can't port the Essentials fighter backward.</blockquote>

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