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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 5384315" data-attributes="member: 29398">Yet the fighter has virtually no defense against magic (pathetic saving throws) and the caster has virtually no defense against physical attack (no armour, fights like a shoe).  The caster's job is to help the fighter.You've lobbed clerics in there - they are their own breed of animal, capable of doing both spellwork and physical combat - though neither as effectively as MUs or fighters.But to keep comparing - yes the casters are chucking lightning bolts and fireballs around, and flying, etc. - but only once a day to the exclusion of all else at that level.  They can make people invisible - including our erstwhile fighter - which is beyond useful, but hardly game-breaking.  And casters still can't fight, so if anything gets near them they've got a problem. This is about the point at which the two best complement each other.By now the fighter's falling behind, but has built up decent saving throws so can withstand some magic.  The caster still can't take two hits from anything, so it has become the fighter's job to help the caster.Minor quibbles: clerics get resurrection at 16th; the Grand Druid is 15th. That said, these characters are long past name level now; the fighter has a castle with lots of henches, the wizard has a tower where she does her research, the cleric has a home temple, and so forth. What are they still doing in the field? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I've never run a game at this level, but the mechanics suggest fighters are lagging - except in saving throws, at which they are the best of anyone.  It's almost like their role has completely changed: using 4e terms they start out as strikers - it's up to them to give out the hurt - and slowly morph into defenders, where it's their job to protect the artillery casters.Lanefan</blockquote>

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