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Trouble with Outsider Depiction
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<blockquote data-quote="Merlion" data-source="post: 2520896" data-attributes="member: 10397"><p>I disagree entirely with this. When I say free will I mean sentient freedom of choice, as in nothing preventing you from making your own decisions. Obviously having free will doesnt allow you to do things you are physically incapable of. Having freedom of choice doesnt automatically mean being omnipotent and being "free" to do anything. To me it basically means sentience, self awareness, freedom from control, and accountability. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Therefore...</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>If thats the case, then they do not have free will. They are forced to be evil no matter what, they cannot choose to do otherwise. And therefore they either are not sentient (which they are) or they are not truly and accountably evil, because they are not choosing their actions.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I reject all of this. And by the same token I reject the idea of fiends as "evil elementals" that are simply born of evil. I dont believe anything comes into being evil, it must be made or choose to become that way. Just like in LOTR, the Balrogs and even Sauron were once good, but make a concious choice to follow the path of evil. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I am currently leaning towards this way of thinking about/handling it. </p><p></p><p>The higher fiends were once celestial beings who fell from grace and became demons. Since they already had absolute knowledge of Good and rejected it, there decision is final and while I suppose their alignment could change, they cannot become what they were before again.</p><p></p><p>Lower types of fiends are basically fallen mortals...people who choose evil in life and so become evil personified after death. Some of them may also be other types of life or whatever that were corrupted in some other manner</p><p></p><p>Any of these types might interbreed with mortals for various reasons.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Most Celestials were created directly by the Creator (or simply sprung from the concept of Good or the good gods in standard D&D). They are capable of choosing evil and thus becoming fiends. They generally do not cross breed with mortals</p><p></p><p>Some celestials were once mortals or other beings who upon death were given several choices, one of which was to become a celestial being and continue to serve the cause of good. They are also capable of "falling" and may some times beget offspring with earthly beings.</p><p></p><p></p><p>All of the Exemplar outsiders are both a body and a spirit, and killing the body doesnt neccesarily kill the spirit.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Merlion, post: 2520896, member: 10397"] I disagree entirely with this. When I say free will I mean sentient freedom of choice, as in nothing preventing you from making your own decisions. Obviously having free will doesnt allow you to do things you are physically incapable of. Having freedom of choice doesnt automatically mean being omnipotent and being "free" to do anything. To me it basically means sentience, self awareness, freedom from control, and accountability. Therefore... If thats the case, then they do not have free will. They are forced to be evil no matter what, they cannot choose to do otherwise. And therefore they either are not sentient (which they are) or they are not truly and accountably evil, because they are not choosing their actions. I reject all of this. And by the same token I reject the idea of fiends as "evil elementals" that are simply born of evil. I dont believe anything comes into being evil, it must be made or choose to become that way. Just like in LOTR, the Balrogs and even Sauron were once good, but make a concious choice to follow the path of evil. I am currently leaning towards this way of thinking about/handling it. The higher fiends were once celestial beings who fell from grace and became demons. Since they already had absolute knowledge of Good and rejected it, there decision is final and while I suppose their alignment could change, they cannot become what they were before again. Lower types of fiends are basically fallen mortals...people who choose evil in life and so become evil personified after death. Some of them may also be other types of life or whatever that were corrupted in some other manner Any of these types might interbreed with mortals for various reasons. Most Celestials were created directly by the Creator (or simply sprung from the concept of Good or the good gods in standard D&D). They are capable of choosing evil and thus becoming fiends. They generally do not cross breed with mortals Some celestials were once mortals or other beings who upon death were given several choices, one of which was to become a celestial being and continue to serve the cause of good. They are also capable of "falling" and may some times beget offspring with earthly beings. All of the Exemplar outsiders are both a body and a spirit, and killing the body doesnt neccesarily kill the spirit. [/QUOTE]
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