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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LordEther" data-source="post: 3021658" data-attributes="member: 29298">Granted, that's possible. I agree that no one wants to play "B team" characters. And it seems you've experienced this in True20 play. My experience differs, however. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I would contend that good game mechanics can make for a good game reminiscent of good literature (if desired); I feel the Vancian thing fails in both regards (mechanic doesn't reflect many genres and while it is a hard limit, it's extremely restrictive). I've seen little potential for the Adept to grow into a story "focal point," but again, you may have experienced differently. Not at all. While I would agree a fatigue mechanic is less restrictive than Vancian slots, the idea that fatigue is not "all that restrictive" assumes that I feel Vancian slots are acceptably restrictive. I don't. I feel they're unnecessarily restrictive and perform poorly at balancing magic users in that they require "tiering" powers according to levels of utility, and established tiers may not always be appropriate to the setting, genre, or situation (for example, a Cat's Grace spell takes up a whole "slot," whether used for a round or the full duration... if she casts the wrong spell in the wrong circumstance, a caster pretty much loses out). <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> But that's just me. Glad I got that level right. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Again, though, I think there are ways around Adepts making their saves consistently; this balance problem you had does not seem, in my opinion, tied too tightly to the system. Did fatigue saves suffer penalties on an hourly or daily basis? If the former, using the latter method might have solved your entire balance problem, as at a certain point, the character would have just been taking fatigue with each casting. The thing I like about fatigue as a control is that, unlike slots, fatigue does affect other areas (take enough and it affects combat, movement, etc.). As to the powers you mention and the problems that come with them... that seems much more a story problem than a system problem... Elemental Blast - You indicate that the character was rolling well, so I'm assuming that that's how this became such a threat... it is a massive damage effect. Massive. But, I don't see Adepts hitting very often (and even with Widened Power, a readied move action or the Evasion/Improved Evasion feats, either purchased or emulated by an Expert with a Conviction point can go far in area effect defense)... except on those "high roller" days (I'm still waiting for mine <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ), and what can one do about that, eh?  Mind Reading - The problems invovled with mind reading actually transcend gaming system. In just about every system I can think of, mind reading powers can be dangerous to campaigns. Baseline D&D has Mind Reading (and since, as you noted, many adventures aren't based on numerous encounters, the slot system is really questionable as a control on this, since in many cases, you only need to use this power once to learn a given secret). Again, since similar abilities are available in D&D, I'm not seeing where the balance concern might lie... except possibly in D&D's (or d20's) leveled spell system (where such spells/powers aren't available until x level); unfortunately, this tiered system isn't balanced for a generic game and the power is still much more useful for discerning secrets than any ability other characters, such as Fighters and Rogues, ever receive. Also, I just have problems with the idea of a character having to wait until x level to do things that may be central to a reasonably common setting (Mind Reading would be pretty important in a psychic-centered game, for example, which a generic system should be able to handle; vanilla d20 Modern's performance in this area is somewhat subpar, IMO, for precisely this reason), especially as abstract as levels are and as many character aspects as they affect. It wouldn't make sense, in my opinion, for a system that claims to be generic to require characters to be at x level before being able to read minds. I'm not sure what True20 does wrong with Mind Reading that isn't present in other games. Look at D&D or d20 Modern... it's still easy to use and arguably even more readily available (if you're a wizard, in which case you just find it and copy it into your book), only it's limited by character level (again, a variable and somewhat arbitrary limitation, though you'll note some Tr20 powers curiously have level prereqs... more rules flaws, in my opinion <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ).  Object Reading - See above. It's in d20. In my experience, there's equal potential for trouble in games ranging from d20 to GURPS to Hero.  Teleport - Again... is there an actual problem with the Teleport ability that renders other characters somehow weaker? Who does it really hurt, and why? I can see how the ability can be useful, even irritating, but I do not understand how it's unbalanced for a character to be able to teleport, even if it's "only" fatigue. A "hard limit" slot system control on the number of times per day the ability can be used is questionable as a limitation, as for those times, there is *no* opportunity for consequences. And how many times a day will a character need to teleport for an in-character reason? A character might escape from danger... or play courier... or steal something and hide it away... but I'm still not coming up with anything that significantly intrudes on the Expert or Warrior's respective niches (although it can be used to circumvent Climb checks, I'm not sure that's terribly unbalanced outside of an arboreal hidden Martian utopia setting).    All Together, Now - Now, arguably, there might be a problem with a character who can do all of these things... but I'm not seeing it. I don't see how Teleportation outshines other, non-mage characters; transportation isn't an Expert or Warrior niche. I don't see how Mind Reading powers or Object Reading powers or both powers together eclipse other players any more in True20 than in any other game. A D&D Wizard or Sorcerer could have access to both abilities, if at a later level (but the nature of the problem means that the level at which it arises is irrevelent, right? A character could still "break" investigative adventures, which have little to do with level, if the GM doesn't have her countermeasures readied). The problems you mention don't seem to be system faults, to me (and again, I'm not arguing that there aren't any... there are).</blockquote>

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