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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8547105" data-attributes="member: 87792">As I've made clear in my above post there's a difference between magic and spells.&nbsp; If I'm taking actions to cast specific spells with verbal, somatic, and material components and that people can counterspell then I'm an armoured wizard.On the other hand 5e has multiple subclasses with magical effect that aren't spellcasters. The Echo Knight Fighter and the Storm Herald Barbarian don't wiggle their fingers and recite mystical mumbo jumbo while digging through their spell component pouches. They just are. I want a sufficiently high level fighter (possibly with a subclass) to be able to kick their way through the wall of a castle without ever referencing the Passwall spell or the any other cookie cutter spell. I want them to be just that powerful.The Echo Knight gets this perfectly - it's magical without being a spellcaster. So's the Storm Herald. And a number of others - but they still all cap far too low.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8547105, member: 87792"] As I've made clear in my above post there's a difference between [I]magic[/I] and [I]spells[/I]. If I'm taking actions to cast specific spells with verbal, somatic, and material components and that people can counterspell then I'm an armoured wizard. On the other hand 5e has multiple subclasses with magical effect that aren't spellcasters. The Echo Knight Fighter and the Storm Herald Barbarian don't wiggle their fingers and recite mystical mumbo jumbo while digging through their spell component pouches. They just [I]are.[/I] I want a sufficiently high level fighter (possibly with a subclass) to be able to kick their way through the wall of a castle without ever referencing the Passwall spell or the any other cookie cutter spell. I want them to be just that powerful. The Echo Knight gets this perfectly - it's magical without being a spellcaster. So's the Storm Herald. And a number of others - but they still all cap far too low. [/QUOTE]

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