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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8547212" data-attributes="member: 6987520">Ok, so I got on the forum to see over 100 new posts to the thread, so my apologies if any of this has already been brooched:FWIW, it has actually been mentioned a few times in the various threads. Given how the threads have grown so rapidly, it isn't surprising if you just missed it. It happens. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Because they don't want something that can be counterspelled or uses the Cast a Spell action?I get your point, but a big part of it depends on just how far you want your fighter too exceed IRL limits. I (personally) am fine with fighters being able to do things that are beyond real life ability via "adrenaline" or "skill" or both, etc. without it being a different form of "magic."The list below is a perfect example: how far are heroic leaps? how huge are the things being lifted and thrown?IMO this is the biggest hurdle. Some people want real life limits, others want heroic (beyond real like, but plausible via skill or adrenaline), and others want superheroic levels. Because those different limits (or lack thereof) exist, it makes creating a single system much harder.Another issue as I see it is that if the fighter can do such things, why can't other non-caster classes? Why can't the rogue run down a wild animal? With cunning action can they already do it? What about the monk and their speed increases? Is that "magical" or just part of the monk's training and benefit from focused ki (does ki alone make it magical?)?Many classes or subclasses already have features which allow them to do some of the things in the list, but they aren't the fighter generally who can do them. Also simple changes would allow that list to be accomplished or narrow the gap significantly, even if the fighter isn't the class that gets it.For example, take Rage. When a barbarian Rages, they get advantage on Strength checks. Why not also allow them to lift, carry, etc. double their normal weight or more? Perhaps a multiplier equal to their proficiency bonus? So, a Primal Champion STR 24 barbarian could lift SIX times his normal amount while raging: or over 4000 lb.!!!Sure, it isn't the "fighter" who gets to do that, but this really isn't (or shouldn't be IMO) JUST about the fighter. While other martial classes have some stuff, much of what even they can do doesn't rival the power or shenanigans of full-casters, particularly in tiers 3 and 4.At any rate, the wheel goes round and round.Do we even need it? Yes, no, maybe?Who needs it? Fighter, others, no one?How do we do it? Magic-like features, magical items, incredibly exceptional awesomeness skill? Something else like nerfing casters a bit?How far do we go with it? Real-life, more than real-life, superheroic, or somewhere in-between?etc.While I appreciate the focus of the thread (to understand the other POV not argue against it), to me that isn't the issue so much as reaching a consensus that answers those questions outlined above (and others...). I mean, I can think up all sorts of features, mechanics, and methods to be play-tested for balance to reach whatever a person wants, but that only helps one person, not the numbers who want something more.</blockquote>

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