NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8547350" data-attributes="member: 87792">I think a lot of us have given reasons in this thread, but to be explicit:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It to me makes for much more consistent and coherent worldbuilding when in a magical setting there are things that are larger than life or even supernatural that aren't spells.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It to me makes for much more consistent and coherent worldbuilding that people have learned to integrate supernatural abilities in things they've trained to excel at</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">We're basing the archetypes on action movies and mythology anyway - not delivering this is not following through on promises given.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It doesn't make a mockery of the level system in which the fighter doesn't get a single new ability (only extra uses of existing ones) from levels 12-19.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It doesn't have the fighter basically being a glorified commoner out of combat at all levels.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It leads to a wider variety of characters I personally find engaging, interesting, and inspiring; I know that others think the way I do here.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It leads to options that have visibly made my friends have more fun when gaming</li> </ul>Frankly, this case feels overwhelming to me.The arguments I've seen against it:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Some people on the internet don't like others to have their sort of fun when it doesn't hurt anyone.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">There are a fewsettings where it's appropriate to have magic users<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In almost all these settings D&D magic in general and 5e magic in specific is inappropriate; you want something more like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay magic</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">oD&D dungeoncrawls where almost all the wizard's spells are loot is the other exception - but that hasn't been the dominant form of play since at least the mid 80s and probably the early 80s</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Some people seem to think that non-mundane characters will no longer exist, rather than being only a few subclasses (such as the berserker barbarian and the battlemaster; no one is advocating for removing the battlemaster)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Some people seem to think that if options are added they don't like they'll be forced to play using them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It breaks with tradition. And smells of 4e.</li> </ul>I've seen no arguments against that I recall that don't fit these headings.And going back to basics and ignoring most of the numbers:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At level 1:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A fighter has a basic speed of 30ft walking and in combat swings their sharpened piece of metal hard and fast at a target within its physical reach</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A wizard has a basic speed of 30ft walking and in combat can cast Burning Hands a couple of times per day.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At level 20:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A fighter has a basic speed of 30ft walking and in combat swings their magically fast piece of metal harder and faster at a target within its physical reach</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A wizard has possibly True Polymorphed itself permanently into an adult red dragon, which means they fly and can fire breath one round in three - and everything else they can do.</li> </ul></li> </ul>It's not that hard to argue that the level 1 characters are balanced with each other. It's possible but very hard to argue that the level 20 characters are balanced. It's ridiculous to argue that both are.</blockquote>

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