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Message: <blockquote data-quote="bert1001 fka bert1000" data-source="post: 8548358" data-attributes="member: 7029588">4e did it pretty well, but I'd say more of it was on the general design side than the actual Fighter class.After one of these threads, I went back and looked at the 4e Fighter manuvers and was surprised to see nothing really that outrageous even up to 30th level.   There are a couple exceptions that push things a little like Come and Get It but those are very, very rare (like 3-4 in a  hundred).   Most the Figher Martial Exploits are more damage, shrug off effects, multi attack, enhanced movement, multi marking, some martial healing or temp HP, access to all effects like stun, persistant damage, positioning, etc.   Nothing crazy at all although admitedly better than 5e.   Actually somewhat action heroey and not mythic martial!  (the Fighter could get some mythical through Epic Destinies and such).  What made Fighter equals was the totality of design:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">combat spellcasting narrowed while still letting spellcasting/other power sources have a niche or unique expressions-- elemental damage, summons, walls, ranged AoE, teleport, zones, etc.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">any powersouce able to create most status effects reliabily</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">reliance on positioning which is fairly action hero level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">limited use abilities allowing tiers of abilities</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">rituals for all non combat plot narrative control abilities and generally at higher levels</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">abtract skill system and skill challenges that let skills act as equal contirbutors to getting closer to a goal in a more narrative way</li> </ul>So 4e did it a little more on the side of bringing spellcasting down and making skills worth more.   The 4e Fighter Exploits in themselves are not really that mythic, even at high levels.</blockquote>

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