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<blockquote data-quote="Asisreo" data-source="post: 8549387" data-attributes="member: 7019027"><p>It might take a bit more thought, but the assumption is that the player wants to play a certain type of fiction. So the player wanting to play Hercules might take Enhance Abilities and Jump, but they wouldn't take dimension door if they didn't have to, which they oftentimes don't. </p><p></p><p>And we probably don't even have to bring up how they interact with spell-nullifying effects since the DM can just not use them on that character. We could just avoid edge-cases like that. </p><p></p><p>And, apologizes if this seems cold. But it's a bit ironic that I had been called out several times for wanting perfection but at the same time seeming like having any sort of compromise on the other side's part is impossible. </p><p></p><p>Really, I've only heard <em>wants</em> but I never heard any exact basis for them other than some form of what you feel like you <em>deserve</em>. It's why I don't understand what the argument truly is. </p><p></p><p>In the spirit of the original post, and this isn't personalized at <em>you</em> specifically:</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 22px"><strong><em>A complex martial should fit my vision because I would enjoy it. </em></strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Counter: It's not feasible to get what you enjoy at all times. Whether because the company doesn't have the time or doesn't want to do it, you can't expect the game to change immediately and exactly like you want it to. You're only a part of the fanbase and can't really make the hard decisions on what should be done. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">counter-counter: I don't want perfection, I'm willing to compromise. I just want what's better than we have because improvements should always be encouraged. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">counter-counter-counter: But there's already been compromise and improvement and it's still not enough. Half-casters are a compromise. Multiclassing is a compromise. Rogues and Monks are a compromise. Loose lore is a compromise. Feats are a compromise. Yet there needs to be more because it still hasn't fit an exact mold of <em>your</em> vision. And improvements should be made, but why is the improvement you're prioritizing the one that has to do with your opinion? </span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 22px"><strong><em>Why are you against my fun? It doesn't hurt anything that I ask for what I want. </em></strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Counter: I have no stakes in your fun. I don't know what you even do let alone whether you're having fun doing it. But these discussions do hurt things. They muddy discussions and cause flame wars. They instigate hate to not just the product but the people that play them. And most importantly, they distract against the issues that plague the system more than just what you want catered to you. The LGBTQIA+ community still doesn't feel completely safe taking part in this hobby. The black and Asian communities still don't feel completely safe playing the game. Women and non-binary players still get harassed. And while it's not a rules issue, it is a system issue which can be resolved. WoTC has been taking good steps to get there but it take time and resources. </span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Asisreo, post: 8549387, member: 7019027"] It might take a bit more thought, but the assumption is that the player wants to play a certain type of fiction. So the player wanting to play Hercules might take Enhance Abilities and Jump, but they wouldn't take dimension door if they didn't have to, which they oftentimes don't. And we probably don't even have to bring up how they interact with spell-nullifying effects since the DM can just not use them on that character. We could just avoid edge-cases like that. And, apologizes if this seems cold. But it's a bit ironic that I had been called out several times for wanting perfection but at the same time seeming like having any sort of compromise on the other side's part is impossible. Really, I've only heard [I]wants[/I] but I never heard any exact basis for them other than some form of what you feel like you [I]deserve[/I]. It's why I don't understand what the argument truly is. In the spirit of the original post, and this isn't personalized at [I]you[/I] specifically: [SIZE=6][B][I]A complex martial should fit my vision because I would enjoy it. [/I][/B][/SIZE] [SIZE=4]Counter: It's not feasible to get what you enjoy at all times. Whether because the company doesn't have the time or doesn't want to do it, you can't expect the game to change immediately and exactly like you want it to. You're only a part of the fanbase and can't really make the hard decisions on what should be done. counter-counter: I don't want perfection, I'm willing to compromise. I just want what's better than we have because improvements should always be encouraged. counter-counter-counter: But there's already been compromise and improvement and it's still not enough. Half-casters are a compromise. Multiclassing is a compromise. Rogues and Monks are a compromise. Loose lore is a compromise. Feats are a compromise. Yet there needs to be more because it still hasn't fit an exact mold of [I]your[/I] vision. And improvements should be made, but why is the improvement you're prioritizing the one that has to do with your opinion? [/SIZE] [SIZE=6][B][I]Why are you against my fun? It doesn't hurt anything that I ask for what I want. [/I][/B][/SIZE] [SIZE=4]Counter: I have no stakes in your fun. I don't know what you even do let alone whether you're having fun doing it. But these discussions do hurt things. They muddy discussions and cause flame wars. They instigate hate to not just the product but the people that play them. And most importantly, they distract against the issues that plague the system more than just what you want catered to you. The LGBTQIA+ community still doesn't feel completely safe taking part in this hobby. The black and Asian communities still don't feel completely safe playing the game. Women and non-binary players still get harassed. And while it's not a rules issue, it is a system issue which can be resolved. WoTC has been taking good steps to get there but it take time and resources. [/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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