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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8549476" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>I don't oppose it in principle, but martials already have strengths and those strengths need to be taken into account for purposes of things like where the tradeoffs come in rather than designing strained whiteroom scenarios unlike normal play that discard them. levelup does a great job of showing this with the martial classes where fighter for example loses action surge & extra feats in exchange for a boatload of choices at various levels that allow them varied combat & noncombat options. The question of where the tradeoffs should come in when calls for making fighter stand shoulder to shoulder in the realm of areas nonfighter classes consider their strengths or even prime niche is not only discarded by advocates pushing martial buffs but actually looked upon with disdain for the very idea as post <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/truly-understanding-the-martials-casters-discussion.686063/post-8548484" target="_blank">557</a>, <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/truly-understanding-the-martials-casters-discussion.686063/post-8548720" target="_blank">592</a>, <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/truly-understanding-the-martials-casters-discussion.686063/post-8548731" target="_blank">594</a>, <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/truly-understanding-the-martials-casters-discussion.686063/post-8548732" target="_blank">595</a>, & <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/truly-understanding-the-martials-casters-discussion.686063/post-8548742" target="_blank">596</a> chain show. Post <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/truly-understanding-the-martials-casters-discussion.686063/post-8549315" target="_blank">680</a> even does a good job of showing how detached from any normal form of gameplay the examples supporting these no tradeoff buff calls often get by putting it in terms of gameplay.</p><p></p><p>As to nerfing casters those suggestions also tend to come with tortured whiteroom scenarios like fighters with no magic items unlimited long rests for casters to enjoy permanent 5 minute workdays & gestalted quantum spell lists that always have the perfect spell in any situation while discarding the actual strength/weaknesses of martials/casters in that or similar scenarios resembling actual gameplay</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8549476, member: 93670"] I don't oppose it in principle, but martials already have strengths and those strengths need to be taken into account for purposes of things like where the tradeoffs come in rather than designing strained whiteroom scenarios unlike normal play that discard them. levelup does a great job of showing this with the martial classes where fighter for example loses action surge & extra feats in exchange for a boatload of choices at various levels that allow them varied combat & noncombat options. The question of where the tradeoffs should come in when calls for making fighter stand shoulder to shoulder in the realm of areas nonfighter classes consider their strengths or even prime niche is not only discarded by advocates pushing martial buffs but actually looked upon with disdain for the very idea as post [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/truly-understanding-the-martials-casters-discussion.686063/post-8548484']557[/URL], [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/truly-understanding-the-martials-casters-discussion.686063/post-8548720']592[/URL], [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/truly-understanding-the-martials-casters-discussion.686063/post-8548731']594[/URL], [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/truly-understanding-the-martials-casters-discussion.686063/post-8548732']595[/URL], & [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/truly-understanding-the-martials-casters-discussion.686063/post-8548742']596[/URL] chain show. Post [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/truly-understanding-the-martials-casters-discussion.686063/post-8549315']680[/URL] even does a good job of showing how detached from any normal form of gameplay the examples supporting these no tradeoff buff calls often get by putting it in terms of gameplay. As to nerfing casters those suggestions also tend to come with tortured whiteroom scenarios like fighters with no magic items unlimited long rests for casters to enjoy permanent 5 minute workdays & gestalted quantum spell lists that always have the perfect spell in any situation while discarding the actual strength/weaknesses of martials/casters in that or similar scenarios resembling actual gameplay [/QUOTE]
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