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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8550105" data-attributes="member: 84112">since firebolt doesn't add int to damage (it does help hit though) a long bow with a 15 or less dex is 1d8+2  (min 3 max 11 avg6) what level do we need for a d10 cantrip to match that?  1st is 1d10 so min 1 max 10 avg 5... already close but not there. 5th is 2d10 so min 2 max 20 average 11... oh shoot they just rocketed past.  11th is 3d10 so min 3 max 30 avg 16 and 17th is 4d10...wait what about the d6 plus control cantrips... 1d6 min 3 max 6 average 3 (well below long bow) 2d6 min 2 max 12 average 7 (wait again at 5th level it looks close)</blockquote>