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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8550497" data-attributes="member: 84112">the funny part is more and more this thread and others shows the problem at my table better then I ever could...every edition but 1 we have people who want to play casters and people that want to play non casters... as the edition ages more and more the ones that want to play non casters find that it is a detriment (to the party, to there fun, ect) to play a non caster. So everyone either 1) plays casters or 2) enters into an out of game agreement to nerf casters so non casters can have fun... the problem is that 2 often leads to hard feelings bringing us back to 1... everyone just plays Mage the Ascension D&D edition.all I want is to bring a class (I don't care if we call it fighter, ranger, warlord, warblade, sword sage, marshal or something else) that can be as full of flavorful options as spell casters and NOT BE a spell caster.  I don't need it to be fighter+ it can litterlay just be as awesome at combat as a cleric, as long as it has the bells and whistles equal to the spells of the cleric.</blockquote>