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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crimson Longinus" data-source="post: 8552110" data-attributes="member: 7025508">Yes, people had a lot of issues with 4e, but the whole structure of that game was so different that I would be somewhat careful about extrapolating a particularly direct connection to the current conversation. In 4e a lot of mechanics were very gamey and meta, and there indeed was not much mechanical differentiation between magical and non-magical powers. Those are things I would avoid, but I don't think any of that would make much sense in 5e design paradigm anyway, so they're unlikely to come up, unless one intentionally tries to mimic 4e structures.Sure. And ultimately WoTC has to assess whether any change would alienate more people than it would attract. And this is an edition that a lot of people like, so there are no huge issues. But as complaints about the edition go, the lacking usefulness of martials at higher levels is pretty common, so it would make some sense to address it some way. And I also have hard time imagining that giving fighter classes and subclasses couple of new class features past level ten would cause a mass exodus of players, especially if you generally wouldn't go wilder than low-tier supers such as Captain America.Like consider the Champion, that is generally seen as a dud. But it is a fine concept: "The archetypal Champion focuses on the development of raw physical power honed to deadly perfection. Those who model themselves on this archetype combine rigorous training with physical excellence to deal devastating blows."This would be a excellent starting point to have a fighter that seeks physical perfection, and at high levels achieves superheroic athletic capabilities, allowing mimicking mythical heroes such as Heracles or Samson. And it already has features that lean into that direction, they're just underwhelming and do not really fulfil the fantasy. So just boost it an make it work!Yes, that is not a niche desire, it is very reasonable and common desire. Abandoning fighter and designing a parallel mythic fighter class so that one can play the illogical concept of level one Heracles however is niche.Yes, I fully agree.First of, if I were 'hyper reductionist' I would advocating having only three or four classes in total. But yes, I generally oppose adding classes, especially if the archetypes desired are so close that they can easily achieved via some tweaking and subclasses as is the case here.And I'd also point out that adding new classes and their several associated subclasses is massively more work than tweaking the existing classes. It is highly unlikely to going to happen, and advocating for it is a distraction for the actual matter of improving the martials we have. I also think that 'no chances whatsoever' brigade is not actually particularly big, and most of them would actually accept minor tweaking.</blockquote>

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