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Truly Understanding the Martials & Casters discussion (+)
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<blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8553798" data-attributes="member: 84112"><p>An optimized fighter can out damage and out take damage an average wizard given enough combat encounters in a day.</p><p></p><p>However for that optimized fighter to do so the DM has to step on the scales a little. </p><p></p><p>given ANY one of the ingredients being off (not optimized fighter, or an optimized wizard, or just half to 3/4 of thos encounters not being combat) and you have caster supremacy in the 1 field that fighter excel in.</p><p></p><p>Take the fighter out of 'do damage' or 'take damage' and they have 0 options no available to every single other character... now a wizard can be unlucky and be out of spells, or not know spells that will help, or even just didn't prep the right spells... in those cases the wizard and the fighter are equals. </p><p></p><p>at level 7 you get 4th level spells. at level 9 you get 5th level spells. Reality alterations are already on line for 4th and 5th level spells. Once 6th level spells come up (the first level you wont get 3+ a day of) you are doing thing no group of fighters can duplicate. </p><p></p><p>wizards are the go to with this... but they are far from alone. Cleric and Druid and Bard get those 4th, 5th,6th, 7th, and 8th/9th level reality altering abilities too, BUT they can be close to equal to the fighter in weapon and armor.</p><p></p><p>there should be no doubt at this point that a 5 person all caster party and a 5 person all non caster party at level 3+ can not handle the same levels of threats... at level 7+ the casters just have dozens of extra options that can shape the entire adventure. For the caster party I will even stay with only full casters, and I will allow for more 'mythic/supernatural' non casters...</p><p></p><p>5person parties:</p><p>Party 1)</p><p>Warcleric</p><p>College of Valor Bard</p><p>Diviner Wizard</p><p>Feylock of the tome</p><p>abberint mind sorcerer</p><p></p><p>Party 2)</p><p>Champion Fighter</p><p>Theif Rogue</p><p>Battle Master Fighter</p><p>Zelot Barbarian</p><p>Empty Hand Monk</p><p></p><p>you can not tell me that even giving the 2nd party MORE magic items (more potions, more wondorus items) that party 1 isn't just packed with more options and power... the 1 place that the party 2 does best is over multi encounters with solo enemies it does better damage... by a bit.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="HammerMan, post: 8553798, member: 84112"] An optimized fighter can out damage and out take damage an average wizard given enough combat encounters in a day. However for that optimized fighter to do so the DM has to step on the scales a little. given ANY one of the ingredients being off (not optimized fighter, or an optimized wizard, or just half to 3/4 of thos encounters not being combat) and you have caster supremacy in the 1 field that fighter excel in. Take the fighter out of 'do damage' or 'take damage' and they have 0 options no available to every single other character... now a wizard can be unlucky and be out of spells, or not know spells that will help, or even just didn't prep the right spells... in those cases the wizard and the fighter are equals. at level 7 you get 4th level spells. at level 9 you get 5th level spells. Reality alterations are already on line for 4th and 5th level spells. Once 6th level spells come up (the first level you wont get 3+ a day of) you are doing thing no group of fighters can duplicate. wizards are the go to with this... but they are far from alone. Cleric and Druid and Bard get those 4th, 5th,6th, 7th, and 8th/9th level reality altering abilities too, BUT they can be close to equal to the fighter in weapon and armor. there should be no doubt at this point that a 5 person all caster party and a 5 person all non caster party at level 3+ can not handle the same levels of threats... at level 7+ the casters just have dozens of extra options that can shape the entire adventure. For the caster party I will even stay with only full casters, and I will allow for more 'mythic/supernatural' non casters... 5person parties: Party 1) Warcleric College of Valor Bard Diviner Wizard Feylock of the tome abberint mind sorcerer Party 2) Champion Fighter Theif Rogue Battle Master Fighter Zelot Barbarian Empty Hand Monk you can not tell me that even giving the 2nd party MORE magic items (more potions, more wondorus items) that party 1 isn't just packed with more options and power... the 1 place that the party 2 does best is over multi encounters with solo enemies it does better damage... by a bit. [/QUOTE]
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