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Message: <blockquote data-quote="wingsandsword" data-source="post: 3059519" data-attributes="member: 14159">Exactly.I'm so opposed to the claims that C&C is big, because I've heard a lot of hyperbole thrown around in these parts about how big C&C is, how "the majority" or "the consensus" of 3e players are burnt out on all the rules and options and choices and want a simpler "rules lite" game, and how C&C is some big selling salvation of d20 & D&D.   I even remember a few claims made around here that C&C sales were putting a distinct dent in D&D sales, that's when I really decided to take a closer look at how "big" C&C is, and realized that if not for ENWorld I'd have never even heard of it, and this from a gamer who keeps a pretty good eye on the industry.It's the "Baghdad Bob" effect, if everybody is telling you something is very successful, that should be something you can notice, but you see no signs of it in your everyday life, even when you're looking for it, and keep looking for it, then it's probably not as successful as they say.If the guess of 3000 copies sold is accurate, then that would be a real big deal for a small-press outfit, and if half of those copies were in use (the rest sitting idle by people who bought it but didn't like it, or can't find a group, or bought it to be completionist), and a typical gaming group of 5 people, that's 300 C&C groups total, pretty small compared to a whole lot of other games.  I'm saying that C&C isn't some revolution in gaming, it's a small press product with a small audience that likes it a lot, and that small audience has a tendency to try and make it look like it's a huge success that's poised to stand alongside D&D.And I'm just annoyed at C&C fanboys who try and make it look like C&C is some huge movement in gaming.  I never, ever said "nobody" was playing it, I said that nobody I knew was playing it or had even heard of it and to me this indicated that it was almost certainly a small-time game, and I have said repeatedly that it has a small but dedicated fanbase, that can appear a little larger using the internet.   My "anecdotal evidence" is no better than yours, and it's enough to satisfy me.  This isn't  a formal academic debate, it's a discussion on how many people are playing C&C, and I have yet to see anything I'd call believable evidence that it's anything more than a modestly successful small-press product.When other people come here and say they've never seen it mentioned, or sold, in their hometowns, and that they generally only hear of it online, that tells me a lot.</blockquote>

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