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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 3059542" data-attributes="member: 32164">I can't believe I'm jumping into this $#!+storm. But I have to ask...Ummm...what in the Nine Hells does he mean by "the hobby market?"Obviously, "hobby market" excludes Wizards, but does it also exclude White Wolf (and therefore Malhavoc), Green Ronin and AEG? Cuz if it does, I have no trouble believing those numbers. However, technically speaking, Mutants and Masterminds, Arcana Evolved, True 20, Spycraft and Iron Heroes are not "d20 products" either (just OGL)...So, what he's basically saying is that C&C (a core rulebook) outsells any single supplement, such as, say The Black Company (again, assuming Green Ronin isn't excluded)? That also is not hard to believe.I do believe Castles & Crusades fans want to believe C&C will eventually outsell 3rd Edition D&D, so that the evil empire (Hasbro, in this case) will see the error of its ways and publish a simple game for them again. And that's not even close to happening.Monte Cook has said the following: a runaway success for a third-party publisher (even one as clearly successful as Malhavoc) is a drop in the bucket compared to WotC's sales. I'm happy C&C fans have found an OGL game they can support. In that sense, C&C corrects a problem the retro "back to basics" movement was causing. The problem is that the hobby won't stay alive as a hobby if there aren't new books to buy. So, back-to-basics games keep people buying new books. Great.Personally, I can get everything I'd want out of C&C by running a stripped down version of D&D. It wouldn't be that difficult. The system isn't nearly as mechanically "balanced on the head of a pin" as people think. It just requires a good DM who can make sound judgement calls - something so-called "rules-light" games take for granted. Anyone who frequents the Iron Heroes ezBoard would know that all the fans of that game are born tinkerers. We've bent, spindled, twisted, and mutilated the Core Rules. They're pretty hard to break.Just my two cents. And I have played with C&C. Aside from the wonky XP tables and the lack of significant class features, it's pretty fun. Of course, it still uses the basic Vancian magic system...*twitch*</blockquote>

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