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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Trying 4E Again
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<blockquote data-quote="OnlineDM" data-source="post: 5249649" data-attributes="member: 90804"><p>Here is my input on several questions and topics raised in this thread.</p><p></p><p>Character Builder: I'm a DDI subscriber now, but I had Character Builder without DDI when I first started 4e earlier this year. As I recall, it had information from PHB1 and PHB2 plus Martial Power and I think Adventurer's Vault, but not Divine Power, Arcane Power, Martial Power 2, Primal Power or Adventurer's Vault 2 (and definitely not PHB3 since it hadn't been released at the time I first downloaded Character Builder). I don't know this for sure, but my guess is that WotC stopped updating the free version, so if you get it you can make SOME level 1-3 characters but not all of them, and you won't have all of the available options for them. For your group that's probably fine, but I think DDI is worth it - at least for one month so that you get all of the updates.</p><p></p><p>Skill Challenges: I strongly second the notion of NOT saying "You're in a skill challenge." You simply let the players know what's going on ("Okay, so you've been hired to find a stolen heirloom. What do you want to do now?") and leave it up to them to figure out a way to do what they're trying to do ("Um, I'll ask around in the tavern to see if anyone knows where I can find a fence." "All right, give me a Streetwise check..."). Also keep in mind that failing a skill challenge should mean that they still achieve their goal, but their lives are somehow harder now (lose a healing surge each, forced to pay a bribe to get the info they want, bad guys are alerted to their approach and bring reinforcements, etc.).</p><p></p><p>Keep on the Shadowfell: <a href="http://onlinedm.wordpress.com/2010/05/07/first-actual-online-gaming-session-it-rocks/" target="_blank">I'm</a> <a href="http://onlinedm.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/second-gaming-session-the-irontooth-battle/" target="_blank">running</a> <a href="http://onlinedm.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/hotel-room-dd-part-2/" target="_blank">this</a> <a href="http://onlinedm.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/first-maptool-session/" target="_blank">for</a> <a href="http://onlinedm.wordpress.com/tag/keepontheshadowfell/" target="_blank">a campaign</a> that's on a few-months hiatus at the moment, and the knock on it is that it's a little boring if your players like to do something other than kill bad guys. There's not much chance for roleplaying, not a ton of exploration - it's a pretty straightforward, nearly linear trip into a dungeon, fighting a room of monsters followed by another room of monsters... That's not to say that you can't mix it up to improve it (<a href="http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/keep-shadowfell/kots-dm.pdf" target="_blank">here's a cool take on a remixed version</a>), but played strictly as written without much DM imagination, it's kind of dull for non-slayers.</p><p></p><p>Chaos Scar: I agree that these adventures are a good next step (requiring DDI, as mentioned), but if you run the Chaos Scar adventure called <a href="http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/duad/20091007" target="_blank">Stick in the Mud</a>, please reconsider before using the <a href="http://onlinedm.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/chaos-scar-third-session-swallowed-by-frogs/" target="_blank">Giant Frogs in the third encounter</a>! A level 3 bad guy who can stun (save ends) is insane and no fun at all. The stunned player doesn't get to do ANYTHING until they make their save. Seriously, nothing. This is completely out of line with monsters that swallow in other sources, such as the Banderhobb Warder from MM3, where at least the character is allowed to fight the monster that has them swallowed. Sheesh, those stupid Giant Frogs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="OnlineDM, post: 5249649, member: 90804"] Here is my input on several questions and topics raised in this thread. Character Builder: I'm a DDI subscriber now, but I had Character Builder without DDI when I first started 4e earlier this year. As I recall, it had information from PHB1 and PHB2 plus Martial Power and I think Adventurer's Vault, but not Divine Power, Arcane Power, Martial Power 2, Primal Power or Adventurer's Vault 2 (and definitely not PHB3 since it hadn't been released at the time I first downloaded Character Builder). I don't know this for sure, but my guess is that WotC stopped updating the free version, so if you get it you can make SOME level 1-3 characters but not all of them, and you won't have all of the available options for them. For your group that's probably fine, but I think DDI is worth it - at least for one month so that you get all of the updates. Skill Challenges: I strongly second the notion of NOT saying "You're in a skill challenge." You simply let the players know what's going on ("Okay, so you've been hired to find a stolen heirloom. What do you want to do now?") and leave it up to them to figure out a way to do what they're trying to do ("Um, I'll ask around in the tavern to see if anyone knows where I can find a fence." "All right, give me a Streetwise check..."). Also keep in mind that failing a skill challenge should mean that they still achieve their goal, but their lives are somehow harder now (lose a healing surge each, forced to pay a bribe to get the info they want, bad guys are alerted to their approach and bring reinforcements, etc.). Keep on the Shadowfell: [URL="http://onlinedm.wordpress.com/2010/05/07/first-actual-online-gaming-session-it-rocks/"]I'm[/URL] [URL="http://onlinedm.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/second-gaming-session-the-irontooth-battle/"]running[/URL] [URL="http://onlinedm.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/hotel-room-dd-part-2/"]this[/URL] [URL="http://onlinedm.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/first-maptool-session/"]for[/URL] [URL="http://onlinedm.wordpress.com/tag/keepontheshadowfell/"]a campaign[/URL] that's on a few-months hiatus at the moment, and the knock on it is that it's a little boring if your players like to do something other than kill bad guys. There's not much chance for roleplaying, not a ton of exploration - it's a pretty straightforward, nearly linear trip into a dungeon, fighting a room of monsters followed by another room of monsters... That's not to say that you can't mix it up to improve it ([URL="http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/keep-shadowfell/kots-dm.pdf"]here's a cool take on a remixed version[/URL]), but played strictly as written without much DM imagination, it's kind of dull for non-slayers. Chaos Scar: I agree that these adventures are a good next step (requiring DDI, as mentioned), but if you run the Chaos Scar adventure called [URL="http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/duad/20091007"]Stick in the Mud[/URL], please reconsider before using the [URL="http://onlinedm.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/chaos-scar-third-session-swallowed-by-frogs/"]Giant Frogs in the third encounter[/URL]! A level 3 bad guy who can stun (save ends) is insane and no fun at all. The stunned player doesn't get to do ANYTHING until they make their save. Seriously, nothing. This is completely out of line with monsters that swallow in other sources, such as the Banderhobb Warder from MM3, where at least the character is allowed to fight the monster that has them swallowed. Sheesh, those stupid Giant Frogs. [/QUOTE]
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