Trying to get my head around the Artifacer's Handbook--help requested

[johnsemlak]

Ok, I am playing a wizard character and have bought Mystic Eye Games' The Artifacer's Handbook (AH), which provides an alternate system for creating magic items, which doesn't require sacrificing XP.

In general my DM has said he'd allow a reasonable alternative, but I'll have to summarize it to him.

Thing is, getting my head around this book is hard.

OK, first question, I assume it's absolutely necessary to replace the Core Rules Item Creation Feats with those presented in AH. Though I'd rather not make such a significant change to the rules, I don't see a way around it. Does this have any significant ramifiactions?

Moving on, one item I've looked at as an example is the Crystal Ball, which my character will hope to create as soon as possible (he's a diviner). According to the core rules, you need to be a 10th level caster. According to AH's system, a standard crystal ball requires a 14th level Wizard (I'm getting that off the summary of creating a Crystal Ball on page 102). Do I have that right? If so, that sucks .

However, AH does provide an alternative for creating a Crystal Ball with charges, which is easier to make. As I understand, I can do this at level 7, when I would get AH's Create Moderate Item feat, and also have access to the Scry spell. To make a Rechargable Crystall Ball would cost 2 spell slots for 20 charges, plus 4 for being rechargable, plus 5 for being a Use Activation Item--Total 11. for a non-rechargable item, it would be only seven spell slots.

Now here's the trick, what exactly is the 'spell slot' in this case? Does this mean I would have to cast the 'scry spell either seven times or eleven times to make the item (I wouldn't be able to do that until acheiving a much higher level than 7th, naturally)?

Anyway, any comments on how I understand, or misunderstand the rules in AH would be greatly appreciated.

 

[johnsemlak]

One thing about this book is that it's really complex, both for the player and the DM.

It also contains a whole bunch of optional rules and stuff that the DM may need to make a decision on, to maintain balence.

A problem for a player who buys this book and hopes to use it is they'll have to explain these complex rules and get the DM to make a lot of decsions.

Still, haven't decided whether I like it or not, it does bring a lot of options to the game.

 

[Mark]

Now here's the trick, what exactly is the 'spell slot' in this case? Does this mean I would have to cast the 'scry spell either seven times or eleven times to make the item (I wouldn't be able to do that until acheiving a much higher level than 7th, naturally)?

What about using scrolls to supplement slots?

 

[johnsemlak]

What about using scrolls to supplement slots?

I supposed that could be an option, yes. I could create scrolls containing the 'scry' spell beforehand.

 

[der_kluge]

John, I'm glad you like the book. Yes, it's a complex system, but you have the gist of it. Once you crank out a handful of items using that system, it will become second nature, and you'll never want to go back.

Firstly, let me address your concerns.

It is not required to replace the core feats with the ones presented in the book. If you continue to use the regular feats, then Craft Wondrous Item is what you're after. We created new feats because it didn't make any sense that you would need two different feats to create boots of waterwalking, and a ring of waterwalking, or three different feats if you also wanted to create a wand with charges of the water walking spell in it. Dumb, IMHO.

But, I digress.

Secondly, the item in question, a crystal ball can be made cheaper by making the item with charges, or even a use-per item. Use-per are items that have a certain number of uses per day. Like 5/per day, or some such. In general, the philosophy behind the book continual-use items are the most potentially game-breaking, and thus the most expensive. Alternatively, items such as +1 swords, et al, are generally cheaper using our system. YMMV - and we realized that, which is why the book is riddled (maybe ridiculously so) with optional rules to allow for customization.

Third, you can't use scrolls. It defeats the purpose of the spell slot system (that is, that the power comes from the inner being), and introduces a huge balance problem. In that, it would allow relatively low-level casters to create obscenely powerful items, first by creating craploads of scrolls, and then by using them to hideous effect.

Lastly, here are some links with more information -
The *official* forums at Mortality.net. Lots of information here from people just like you with questions about the nuances of the system. I haven't compiled it all yet, but there are some snippets of errata buried here as well (probably nothing that would affect you with regards to the crystal ball)
http://mortality.net/board/board.php?FID=166

An ENWorld thread, with tons of examples:
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60888&highlight=artificers+handbook

Of course, I'll be happy to answer questions in this thread as well.

 

[johnsemlak]

Wow, thanks Curtis. I'll definitely bookmark that Artificaer's Handbook forum. Looks like I'll be needing it.

I agree with you on the scoll's issue.

I'm probably going to stick with the Core Rules item creation feats. I see what you're trying to do with the new feats--I just want to minimize the diverstion from the core rules as much as possible, to make it easier on my DM.

Liking this book more and more...

 

[der_kluge]

I'm glad you like it. It reassures me that that year and a half of my life wasn't wasted.

On the topic of removing the XP cost, there are several methods presented in the book, but my favorite is this:
Using the spell slot system, the cost is created using the creation cost formula in chapter II (10gp(SL + CL -1) * SS^2). That cost is reflective of the amount of money in raw materials the item requires, in either mundane, or hard to find stuff. You can use the material components chapter for ideas on things to include as material components. Ideally, the kind of components required should be a balance of purchasable things, and hard-to-acquire things, whose total gold piece value (purchased stuff + the value of the acquired stuff) is equal to the gold cost in the creation cost formula. The DM can choose to allow or disallow magic items solely on the availability of hard-to-acquire material components, so the control is still in his hands. "What, no doppelganger hearts on the open market? I guess that ring of polymorph self can't be made then, sorry."

Furthermore, I like the item instability rules because it can add a lot of interesting effects to a magic item, and also ensures that the creator's don't get too carried away with what they're trying to pull off, lest the item end up cursed, or worse!

If, after reading those threads, you continue to have questions or concerns, please let me know.

 

[Storminator]

I'm having pretty much the same issue with the book. It's going to have to wait until I DM to get use, as I don't want to spring the whole system on my DM.

PS

 

[Pants]

Wow, this book sounds pretty cool. I like the idea of ultimate customization of Magic items. I may have to take a look at it next time I'm in a store.

 

[johnsemlak]

I can say this bbok definitely presents a very thorough customization system.

For each item you create, options are given for creating a single use time, a charged item, a re-charable item, a continuous use item, an unlimited use item, an item you can 'turn on/off', etc.

It provides a system where you can create an item based on virtually existing spell.

One area it slightly lacks (the book admits this) is when the effect is not something duplicated by a spell (the magic item costs are tied to spell levels and so forth). The book suggests a spell be created in this case.