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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quick Leaf" data-source="post: 1607032" data-attributes="member: 20423">long postI remember reading about patron saints as a feat somewhere on EnWorld. I think that would be phenomonally cool! Some historic considerations about monotheism...Take Persia (Iran), where Zoroastrianism (ahura mazda is big god, many demons and divine beings fighting, good vs. evil, salvation in afterlife) is credited by many as first monotheistic religion. Zoroaster was a conquerer, and affiliated with many conquerers. The monotheism was an attempt to control religions that under previous rulership had been given wide berth. Often, many cults slipped through the cracks, such that it was never a purely monotheistic empire. This is typical of monotheism during pre-medieval times.The main difference between mages and priests is...Mages are inheritors of a stolen gift, the ability to speak the divine tongue. Priests were taught to commune with the gods long ago, able to make requests in exchange for performing symbolic actions; priests do not speak the divine tongue (although there are some who do, thus straddling the fence). Priest magic is always based on ritual (While it may appear spontaneous to the player given your mechanics, it represents somethin which the character already knows). Anyone can learn to be a priest, you don't even need to have overwhelming faith, though that helps to start out. In fact, one of the main duties of priests is to teach simple protective measures for common people.Mages disdain priests; after all, why barter with the gods when you can go straight to the source? Priests consider mages dangerous; only a fool presumes to be more powerful than the gods! Of course, this is somewhat of a double standard, since the priest is often motivated (entirely or in part) by learning the True Name of the gods. A portion of these True Names (every living being has one) was taught to the first circle of priests so that they could awaken the god's attention; this small bit of knowledge was a form of meditation whereby the priest visualized him or herself as the deity, or the deity's might entering their body. Having tasted what just one letter or syllable of the True Name can do, many priests want to learn more, hoping to control the gods themselves. There are cases where this has happened, usually ending with catastrophy, though not always.About the only group of priests who don't dislike mages is The House of Life, whose goddess is said to have helped the First Mage steal the language of the gods (some accounts say she orchestrated it, and others claim she was tricked by a priest who was the mage's accomplice). The House of Life seeks to awaken the "gift" that mages have in all humanity. They are barely tolerated by the other orders, and walk a thin line.For priest magic mechanics I never finished, but was thinking...1. chose deity/saint to identify with (must have studied the first part of their true name)2. roll on symbolic action table for the deity's demands3. player explains spell effect & GM determines spell level (as per ArsMagica)4. determine casting totalTotal= Deity rank + Relevance + Explanation +Base cast bonus +WIS modifier +Holy symbol +PurityDeity rank: not sure how this works...without an extra bonus, however, the casting becomes too difficult and guarantees you'll take fatigue unless the spell is very relevant...Relevance has 3 levels:Slightly (+5)-- one aspect of the deity relates, i.e. hunting a deer (anhur), or healing someone (Isis)Moderate (+10)-- two aspects of deity relate, i.e. engaging in holy war (anhur), or healing a sick mother (Isis)Very (+15)-- three aspects relate, i.e. hunting down enemies fleeing the battlefield (anhur), or divining the cure for a sick mother whose child will have the Gift (isis)Explanation: Do the symbolic action and deity tie into the desired spell effect?(-5) No, symbolic action ties into neither deity or effect(+0) Symbolic action ties into either deity or the desired effect(+5) Symbolic action ties into both deity and desired effectBCB (Base cast bonus) is as per a hermetic mage of equal levelHoly symbol: does the priest have a holy symbol?(-5) no symbol(-1) unrelated symbol(+1) related symbol(+3) sign/statue of the deity/saint in question(+5) enchanted/blessed sign/statue (must be ritually cleansed daily in holy water, and other reqs.)(+10) access to a holy shrine (naos) of the deity/saintPurity: many ancient traditions required this:(-6) priest is filthy dirty(-2) priest hasn't bathed for 1-7 days(0) priest has bathed that day(+2) priest has bathed in holy water that dayCasting totalequal or greater than spell level --- spell succeedsequal or greater than spell level -20 --- spell succeeds, and caster takes fatigue subdual damage at 1d6 per 10 levels of spellless than spell level -20 --- spell fails, and caster takes damage as aboveEXAMPLE: Kherabt is a 3rd level priest with a 13 Wisdom (+1). Thus she has +9 BCB. Her friends are being chased by a horde of monsters, and she decides to cast a spell to help them. She chooses Osiris (she has a +10 deity rank) as her deity, and rolls the “Eating the scroll” symbolic action (means the consumption of knowledge). Now she describes her spell effect: A ghost from the underworld frightens the pursuing monsters so bad they forget what they’re doing. How does “Eating the scroll” tie in? The ghost devours the knowledge the monsters have of why they’re chasing the characters. She wields an ankh, symbol of eternal life. Her player argues that the ankh is a beacon for the ghost, promising eternal life, and the GM agrees it is a related holy symbol (+1). The GM gives the spell +5 for relevance (protecting the civilized characters and stopping the chaotic enemies of civilization – the monsters - relates to one aspect of Osiris), and +2 for the player’s explanation. Thus, the casting total is 5+9+10+1+2+1 = 28. The GM has determined that this is a 35th level spell (20 for erasing a short memory and 15 for fear...see ArM rules for clarification). Thus, Kherabt successfully casts the spell, but takes 3d6 subdual damage, putting her in real jeopardy.Whew! I'd love some feedback on this priest too... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Cheers!</blockquote>

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