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TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)
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<blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 8318277" data-attributes="member: 6777737"><p>Obviously, yes.</p><p></p><p>The trouble is, in that thread Gary is talking about the ethics of an in-game character in his fantasy campaign world, not his personal ethics. He's talking about what a Lawful Good Paladin in his game world would think, and what the in-game, fantasy world that he imagines would consider Lawful and Good (both defined terms with special meaning, especially in 1e), not what he himself thinks is lawful or good under their plain English meanings in our world.</p><p></p><p>Gary's games and his table were always interested in historical simulation, so his games were interested in emulating their perceptions of medieval ethics and morals. That was part of their original purpose when they created D&D, so obviously his definitions for his campaign worlds suit that purpose.</p><p></p><p>If the comments are being used as an example that Gary intended or assumed that the morals and ethics of D&D settings would be sexist and racist, that's valid. If being used as evidence that the mechanical game design had anachronistic assumptions baked into it that are sexist and racist, that's valid, too. But -- and maybe I've lost track of the thread context, which is why I asked what the intent was -- that's very different than it being an example Gary's personal ethics or morals.</p><p></p><p>Because, yeah, I agree with him that a 1e Lawful Good Paladin using medieval ethics and morals <em>would</em> justify slaughtering orc and goblin children with phrasing similar to Colonel Chivington or Andrew Jackson or any number of European colonial conquerors. And the society that that Paladin belongs to would agree, just like the societies of the above individuals did. That's one reason why many players didn't like that scenario, and it's why the contemporary game largely does <em>not</em> try to emulate medieval ethics or morals.</p><p></p><p>Don't misunderstand. I'm not defending Gary or the ethical and moral assumptions that were baked into the early game. I'm saying that if you're looking to criticize Gary's personal beliefs, these comments are an extremely poor example. You're intentionally conflating what he says an in-game, fictional character would do in a world that by design has medieval ethics and morals, with what Gary himself personally believes about the real world. That's so much of a stretch that it's disingenuous. Even if he <em>is</em> stating his own personal beliefs, it's impossible to tell in that thread.</p><p></p><p>It's like taking Humbert Humbert's words and actions as Vladimir Nabokov's personal beliefs. It can be done (and absolutely has been done), but you're going to be taken as a fool making that kind of claim. Authors and creators do create worlds with morals and ethics that don't match their own morals and ethics in the real world, and they don't always put an Evil or Renegade label on everything that our contemporary morals would object to. That's not glorification or approval. That's <em>fiction</em>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bacon Bits, post: 8318277, member: 6777737"] Obviously, yes. The trouble is, in that thread Gary is talking about the ethics of an in-game character in his fantasy campaign world, not his personal ethics. He's talking about what a Lawful Good Paladin in his game world would think, and what the in-game, fantasy world that he imagines would consider Lawful and Good (both defined terms with special meaning, especially in 1e), not what he himself thinks is lawful or good under their plain English meanings in our world. Gary's games and his table were always interested in historical simulation, so his games were interested in emulating their perceptions of medieval ethics and morals. That was part of their original purpose when they created D&D, so obviously his definitions for his campaign worlds suit that purpose. If the comments are being used as an example that Gary intended or assumed that the morals and ethics of D&D settings would be sexist and racist, that's valid. If being used as evidence that the mechanical game design had anachronistic assumptions baked into it that are sexist and racist, that's valid, too. But -- and maybe I've lost track of the thread context, which is why I asked what the intent was -- that's very different than it being an example Gary's personal ethics or morals. Because, yeah, I agree with him that a 1e Lawful Good Paladin using medieval ethics and morals [I]would[/I] justify slaughtering orc and goblin children with phrasing similar to Colonel Chivington or Andrew Jackson or any number of European colonial conquerors. And the society that that Paladin belongs to would agree, just like the societies of the above individuals did. That's one reason why many players didn't like that scenario, and it's why the contemporary game largely does [I]not[/I] try to emulate medieval ethics or morals. Don't misunderstand. I'm not defending Gary or the ethical and moral assumptions that were baked into the early game. I'm saying that if you're looking to criticize Gary's personal beliefs, these comments are an extremely poor example. You're intentionally conflating what he says an in-game, fictional character would do in a world that by design has medieval ethics and morals, with what Gary himself personally believes about the real world. That's so much of a stretch that it's disingenuous. Even if he [I]is[/I] stating his own personal beliefs, it's impossible to tell in that thread. It's like taking Humbert Humbert's words and actions as Vladimir Nabokov's personal beliefs. It can be done (and absolutely has been done), but you're going to be taken as a fool making that kind of claim. Authors and creators do create worlds with morals and ethics that don't match their own morals and ethics in the real world, and they don't always put an Evil or Renegade label on everything that our contemporary morals would object to. That's not glorification or approval. That's [I]fiction[/I]. [/QUOTE]
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