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<blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 8857958" data-attributes="member: 7026594">This must have something to do with house rules you use for other XP sources and for greater survivability, too.&nbsp; For me, running TSR-era D&amp;D the first few levels should only take 3-4 sessions to advance each, as Moldvay recommended in 1981.&nbsp; Slower than 5E, certainly, but if you're running pure BTB 2E, or 1E without gold for XP, you've got to be looking at more like 10-12 sessions per level, even to hit 2nd.So you've houseruled backstab to allow it multiple times in a single fight.&nbsp; That's certainly one way to help Thieves, albeit you don't take it as far as WotC.Yes.&nbsp; As I wrote, as I got more experience with the oldest editions in the last few years, Fighters have definitely grown on me.If your character relies on having to steal from the party, as I'm sure I've seen you point out in other threads, you're asking for trouble. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Well, sure.&nbsp; But you seem to have lost track of the point of the discussion.&nbsp; That having the OPTION to leave guards alive and unharmed while you yoink a McGuffin or treasure or what have you (say, in a city adventure where you don't want to murder someone?) is often a really useful tool to have in the toolbox.&nbsp; Or to put down a Dominated party member without bloodshed.&nbsp; Or stop a bar fight in its tracks.&nbsp; Or capture the farmer's prized stallion.&nbsp; Etc.&nbsp; Sleep is a great tool for situations when you don't want people or animals dead.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mannahnin, post: 8857958, member: 7026594"] This must have something to do with house rules you use for other XP sources and for greater survivability, too. For me, running TSR-era D&D the first few levels should only take 3-4 sessions to advance each, as Moldvay recommended in 1981. Slower than 5E, certainly, but if you're running pure BTB 2E, or 1E without gold for XP, you've got to be looking at more like 10-12 sessions per level, even to hit 2nd. So you've houseruled backstab to allow it multiple times in a single fight. That's certainly one way to help Thieves, albeit you don't take it as far as WotC. Yes. As I wrote, as I got more experience with the oldest editions in the last few years, Fighters have definitely grown on me. If your character relies on having to steal from the party, as I'm sure I've seen you point out in other threads, you're asking for trouble. :) Well, sure. But you seem to have lost track of the point of the discussion. That having the OPTION to leave guards alive and unharmed while you yoink a McGuffin or treasure or what have you (say, in a city adventure where you don't want to murder someone?) is often a really useful tool to have in the toolbox. Or to put down a Dominated party member without bloodshed. Or stop a bar fight in its tracks. Or capture the farmer's prized stallion. Etc. Sleep is a great tool for situations when you don't want people or animals dead. [/QUOTE]

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