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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8942897" data-attributes="member: 6877472">This made me think of something.&nbsp; Some spells seem to largely exist largely as justification for NPC abilities.&nbsp; &quot;How is his entire fortress magically protected?&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Guards and Wards, naturally.&quot;There are certainly spells that most adventurers would never bother to prepare.&nbsp; But they exist anyways, to lend a sort of verisimilitude to the magic system.&nbsp; Let's call these sorts of spells &quot;narrative spells&quot;.&nbsp; They exist to explain some facet of the setting.All well and good, but, by having these in the same spell system as the stuff like fireball that players are likely to use, there becomes a greater chance that a player might pick up one of these narrative spells, and use it to define, warp, shape, or dictate the narrative to the DM!It's like giving a regular player access to a debug menu in a video game.&nbsp; Or cheat codes.&nbsp; Now the DM is scrambling to regain control of his campaign, or put actual controls on something that otherwise was left entirely to his discretion.Turning an ally into a T-Rex and having it attack the party?&nbsp; Perfectly fine.&nbsp; Wait, now the Fighter is a T-Rex?&nbsp; Uh, well, he has the mentality of a rampaging predator and loses agency!It just seems to me that the fact that some spells aren't labeled &quot;not for player use without careful consideration&quot; and just plopped into the PHB is seriously irresponsible.&nbsp; And I'm not just saying this as DM- I have in the past seen a spell, thought about how I could use it, and then employed it in game without thinking &quot;oh wait, how is the DM going to respond to this?&quot;.&nbsp; Or even &quot;how can the DM respond to this?&quot;.And when told my tactic is nerfed/banned/or never allowed again, I don't always immediately go &quot;ah yes, that makes sense&quot;.&nbsp; Here I was using the tools the game gave me, and oh no, you can't do that!I mean, yeah, in retrospect (much like this magic circle incident), I might see the problem.&nbsp; But in play, it can sometimes feel arbitrary and unfair, like a DM randomly deciding 1 out of 20 arrows is flawed and will veer off course or break on impact.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 8942897, member: 6877472"] This made me think of something. Some spells seem to largely exist largely as justification for NPC abilities. "How is his entire fortress magically protected?" "Guards and Wards, naturally." There are certainly spells that most adventurers would never bother to prepare. But they exist anyways, to lend a sort of verisimilitude to the magic system. Let's call these sorts of spells "narrative spells". They exist to explain some facet of the setting. All well and good, but, by having these in the same spell system as the stuff like fireball that players are likely to use, there becomes a greater chance that a player might pick up one of these narrative spells, and use it to define, warp, shape, or dictate the narrative to the DM! It's like giving a regular player access to a debug menu in a video game. Or cheat codes. Now the DM is scrambling to regain control of his campaign, or put actual controls on something that otherwise was left entirely to his discretion. Turning an ally into a T-Rex and having it attack the party? Perfectly fine. Wait, now the Fighter is a T-Rex? Uh, well, he has the mentality of a rampaging predator and loses agency! It just seems to me that the fact that some spells aren't labeled "not for player use without careful consideration" and just plopped into the PHB is seriously irresponsible. And I'm not just saying this as DM- I have in the past seen a spell, thought about how I could use it, and then employed it in game without thinking "oh wait, how is the DM going to respond to this?". Or even "how [B]can [/B]the DM respond to this?". And when told my tactic is nerfed/banned/or never allowed again, I don't always immediately go "ah yes, that makes sense". Here I was using the tools the game gave me, and oh no, you can't do that! I mean, yeah, in retrospect (much like this magic circle incident), I might see the problem. But in play, it can sometimes feel arbitrary and unfair, like a DM randomly deciding 1 out of 20 arrows is flawed and will veer off course or break on impact. [/QUOTE]

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