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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8956792" data-attributes="member: 6877472">I've had people on this forum claim that the disadvantage is barely a penalty at all to their players.&nbsp; I haven't seen this, but there are ways to get advantage on rolls fairly easily, so, at least by the rules presented, I could see a group that can optimize to the point that they could care less about needing light by the letter of the law, but they could still perhaps be confounded by not being able to perceive color, have difficulty reading, enemies with special senses, and most (but not all) forms of magical darkness.All this tells me, however, is that darkvision isn't the problem; the problem is players who don't want to fiddle with needing a light source and are willing to go the extra mile to optimize it out of the game.&nbsp; Which is nothing new; we see the same thing with regards to tracking rations and encumbrance.Simply put, there is very little about the game that a sufficiently motivated player can't trivialize if they so choose.&nbsp; So the question a DM has to ask themselves is, if you want to make fumbling around in the dark or tracking arrows an important part of the game, and your players are willing to make race/feat/class/spell choices to do an end run around such things, should you reassess if you and your group are on the same page or not?I mean, I've seen this happen in real life; a DM wanted to use the optional encumbrance rules in his game, as well as track coin weights.&nbsp; One of the players made a Goliath Barbarian and offered to carry anything the players didn't need immediate access to.&nbsp; This went for three sessions before the DM decided to audit our sheets to make sure we were following the rules.He was fairly put out by the result.Or how back when I played AD&amp;D, and coin weights were enforced, I was the only one in my group who would pick up copper pieces, because &quot;they aren't worth carrying&quot;.&nbsp; Imagine if you will adventurers leaving thousands of copper coins laying on the ground until they finally got a bag of holding or something, lol.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 8956792, member: 6877472"] I've had people on this forum claim that the disadvantage is barely a penalty at all to their players. I haven't seen this, but there [I]are [/I]ways to get advantage on rolls fairly easily, so, at least by the rules presented, I could see a group that can optimize to the point that they could care less about needing light [I]by the letter of the law[/I], but they could still perhaps be confounded by not being able to perceive color, have difficulty reading, enemies with special senses, and most (but not all) forms of magical darkness. All this tells me, however, is that darkvision isn't the problem; the problem is players who don't want to fiddle with needing a light source and are willing to go the extra mile to optimize it out of the game. Which is nothing new; we see the same thing with regards to tracking rations and encumbrance. Simply put, there is very little about the game that a sufficiently motivated player can't trivialize if they so choose. So the question a DM has to ask themselves is, if you want to make fumbling around in the dark or tracking arrows an important part of the game, and your players are willing to make race/feat/class/spell choices to do an end run around such things, should you reassess if you and your group are on the same page or not? I mean, I've seen this happen in real life; a DM wanted to use the optional encumbrance rules in his game, as well as track coin weights. One of the players made a Goliath Barbarian and offered to carry anything the players didn't need immediate access to. This went for three sessions before the DM decided to audit our sheets to make sure we were following the rules. He was fairly put out by the result. Or how back when I played AD&D, and coin weights were enforced, I was the only one in my group who would pick up copper pieces, because "they aren't worth carrying". Imagine if you will adventurers leaving thousands of copper coins laying on the ground until they finally got a bag of holding or something, lol. [/QUOTE]

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