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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jimlock" data-source="post: 5551632" data-attributes="member: 6674931">i can't see your point really...In religion, occultism and folklore, a demon or daemon, daimon; from Greek δαίμων daimôn,[1] is a supernatural being described as something that is not human and in ordinary usage malevolent. The original neutral Greek word "daimon" does not carry the negative connotation initially understood by implementation of the Koine (Hellenistic and New Testament Greek) δαίμονιον (daimonion),[2] and later ascribed to any cognate words sharing the root, originally intended to denote a spirit or spiritual being.The Devil (Ancient Greek: διάβολος or diábolos = 'slanderer' or 'accuser'[1]) is believed in many religions and cultures to be a powerful, supernatural entity that is the personification of evil and the enemy of God and humankind. The Devil is commonly associated with heretics, infidels, and other unbelievers. The Abrahamic religions have variously regarded the Devil as a rebellious fallen angel or demon that tempts humans to sin or commit evil deeds. Others regard the Devil as an allegory that represents a crisis of faith, individualism, free will, wisdom and enlightenment.Angels are messengers of God in the Hebrew and Christian Bibles. The English word angel is derived from the Greek ἄγγελος, a translation of מלאך (mal'akh) in the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh); a similar term, ملائكة (Malāīkah), is used in the Qur'an. The Hebrew and Greek words originally mean messenger, and depending on the context may refer either to a human messenger (possibly a prophet or priest, such as Malachi, "my messenger", but also for more mundane characters, as in the Greek superscription that the Book of Malachi was written "by the hand of his messenger" (ἀγγήλου)) or to a supernatural messenger,[1] such as the "Mal'akh YHWH," who (depending on interpretation) is either a messenger from God,[2] an aspect of God (such as the Logos),[3] or God Himself as the messenger (the "theophanic angel.")[1][4]as far as i can tell these creatures "existed" in civilizations long before christianity...But even if the were christian (which they are not) it wouldn't matter because............Nobody ever argued how D&D incorporated/was-influnced by other stuff year after year. We're talking about how it started and which is the PRIMARY and most SUBSTANTIAL influence... (even to this day, no matter the add ons) ..... which is Tolkiena 51% is enough to rule a company ( and in our case it's a bit more than 51%)... so yes... it's only fair to say that D&D started out and still is a "tolkien-esque universe"for some good examples read my previous thread on the subject.I somehow see this as completely irrelevant.... ravenloft...spelljammer...... so?? these came afterwards and are nothing but a minority compared to the main core fantasy settings influenced by Tolkien Things do evolve and change, as they also mean different things to different people... Yes.IMO this is not an argument as to how D&D was not "mainly" influenced by Tolkien.As much as i may (or not - a bit "too black and white" if you ask me...) like Tolkien's work...i'm not trying to stand up for him as a huge fun. IMO... i'm merely pointing out the obvious... I get the impression that people who don't like Tolkien... yet like D&D, try to look the other way, in respect to the fact that a game they love is primarily influenced by a writer the do not like....</blockquote>

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