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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jimlock" data-source="post: 5559513" data-attributes="member: 6674931">i have something to say, without any intention to take sides...or throw oil into the fire, so to speak.While I agree with Celebrim on his views on tumble for i have posted i similar post myself, and while i agree with Celebrim and Dandu as to how holistic such an approach (Water Bob's) should be (by taking into account more actions than tumble), i think that we failed to bring forward the fact that, by SRD, tumble is a skill that can be used both for evasive maneuvers in combat, and as a way to "perform".Does this mean that the same character uses the same flip-flopy-summersaulty moves for both uses of the skill? Maybe... but I would "tend" to say no, and would probably rule that the same character can use in-combat tumble without penalties while carrying his adventuring gear, but when this character wants to tumble in front of an audience so as to entertain, he better not be carrying his swords and shields....But even if this ruling might have some "logic" into it, who's to say what each characters tumble-style looks like? For what is certain, is that in such a varied world different characters are certainly going to have different tumble styles. And while a character's in-combat tumble style might be some simple/down-to-the-ground yet effective one so as to evade blows, another's in-combat style might as well look like Pris' in Blade Runner, or even like chuckie chan's drunken style. At this point, this is where flavor, style and mood comes in, and the DM has to make choices as far as "what tumble styles do i want in my game" is concerned. Personally i want to stick to Western Europe/Medieval-Dark Ages,  therefore i do not incorporate oriental styles. That's not to say that i disallow summersaulting diving etc, but i certainly don't have any ninja moves in my game. Tumble is such a varied skill style-wise, that you can picture it/use it, both as player and a DM, however you choose. I can easily picture Tumble in an oriental campaign, being far more flashy, full of incredible moves even during combat, but i do not necessarily have to incorporate it like that in my own game.I say all this because Water Bob, in his original post, stated how he cannot see Tumble in a Tolkien-esque universe. Well that's true... if you put chukie chan in the LOTRs...well its not very appealing, but the point remains that you can use Tumble however you please, so that it doesn't break your "in-game" realism. Chukie chan's tumble-style isn't LOTRs tumble-style, Pris' Tumble-style isn't either... but Legolas' tumble style is. I assure you that if you ever played out the scene were Legolas gets on the Oliphant, all rolls Legolas would be rolling would be tumble ckecks (along with some climb + balance ones...). Even if that's too flashy or Hollywood-like for anyone, he can rule tumble to be even simpler than this... it's all in the hands of the DM.IMO, sometimes we call up realism, when we are actually referring to our "in-game" realism or even to our gaming style/mood/theme...</blockquote>

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