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<blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5559910" data-attributes="member: 92305">See, this is the root of my problem.&nbsp; I can't picture how someone moves through a threatened area SLOWER than normal (half speed is at a walk) and gets the benefit of not provoking AoO's where as a normal fighter, dodging, movie, feinting, DOES is subject to AoO's in the same space.&nbsp;What is it the Tumbler is doing that the fighter isn't?&nbsp;It can't be what some of you are describing--just dodging in and out, weaving around.&nbsp; Because that's basically what a fighter does when he's in melee.&nbsp;The only thing that seems to make sense here is to picture Prince of Persia style moves--which is superhuman and unacceptible to me in my game.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Only people ignorant of the d20 system's flexibility says that.&nbsp; All one has to do is look around and see how the game has been modified to fit various styles of game, from gritty ultra modern, to super hero fantastical.&nbsp;The d20 system is just as capable of handling a simulationist approach as it is an abstract approach.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I don't play D&amp;D.&nbsp; I play another d20 game, Conan.&nbsp; It has a totally different, non-vancian, sorcery system.&nbsp;And, the Conan RPG is a bit more simulationist than regular 3.0/3.5 D&amp;D, although it can be played either way (see...flexibility).&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I'm sure that's true about Hide.&nbsp; I was making a point, that I think you got, about the style of my game, not about the Hide skill.&nbsp;I usually speak in examples.&nbsp; That's just what came to my head.&nbsp; I'm sure it's a bad example, as you've shown, but I think my point was still made.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yes, Conan is cool.&nbsp; The Hyborian Age facinates me.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It's....it's....Swords &amp; Sorcery!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I'm OK with both of those things you just mentioned.&nbsp;Where do I draw the line?&nbsp; Where &quot;heroic&quot; crossover over the line of my own suspension of disbelief into &quot;superhuman&quot;.&nbsp; &nbsp;As with most things in a campaign, that &quot;line&quot; is governed by the GM's sensibilities.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;In my game, you've have all the opportunity you need to convince me that something does make sense.&nbsp; I listen to my players, and I want them to be happy.&nbsp; In the end, though, I am the final word.&nbsp; I'm the Rulebook.&nbsp; It doesn't matter what's printed in some book somewhere.&nbsp; I'm Judge Dread when it comes to decisons about the game.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I disagree with the statement that this thread has illustrated nicely what it is to tumble.&nbsp; See the top of this post.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I would have rewarded that--very &quot;cool&quot;, cinematic play.&nbsp; It would have been a shining moment in my game.&nbsp;You have to remember, though.&nbsp; It is IMPOSSBILE to agree with your GM 100% of the time unless YOU ARE THE GM.&nbsp;People are people.&nbsp; Aspects of the game are subjects.&nbsp; Difference of opinion WILL happen.&nbsp;You elected to play with your GM.&nbsp; Now stand by that decision whether you agree with one or two of his calls, or not.&nbsp;Because you're always going to disagree with something he does.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Water Bob, post: 5559910, member: 92305"] See, this is the root of my problem. I can't picture how someone moves through a threatened area SLOWER than normal (half speed is at a walk) and gets the benefit of not provoking AoO's where as a normal fighter, dodging, movie, feinting, DOES is subject to AoO's in the same space. What is it the Tumbler is doing that the fighter isn't? It can't be what some of you are describing--just dodging in and out, weaving around. Because that's basically what a fighter does when he's in melee. The only thing that seems to make sense here is to picture Prince of Persia style moves--which is superhuman and unacceptible to me in my game. Only people ignorant of the d20 system's flexibility says that. All one has to do is look around and see how the game has been modified to fit various styles of game, from gritty ultra modern, to super hero fantastical. The d20 system is just as capable of handling a simulationist approach as it is an abstract approach. I don't play D&D. I play another d20 game, Conan. It has a totally different, non-vancian, sorcery system. And, the Conan RPG is a bit more simulationist than regular 3.0/3.5 D&D, although it can be played either way (see...flexibility). I'm sure that's true about Hide. I was making a point, that I think you got, about the style of my game, not about the Hide skill. I usually speak in examples. That's just what came to my head. I'm sure it's a bad example, as you've shown, but I think my point was still made. Yes, Conan is cool. The Hyborian Age facinates me. It's....it's....Swords & Sorcery! I'm OK with both of those things you just mentioned. Where do I draw the line? Where "heroic" crossover over the line of my own suspension of disbelief into "superhuman". As with most things in a campaign, that "line" is governed by the GM's sensibilities. In my game, you've have all the opportunity you need to convince me that something does make sense. I listen to my players, and I want them to be happy. In the end, though, I am the final word. I'm the Rulebook. It doesn't matter what's printed in some book somewhere. I'm Judge Dread when it comes to decisons about the game. I disagree with the statement that this thread has illustrated nicely what it is to tumble. See the top of this post. I would have rewarded that--very "cool", cinematic play. It would have been a shining moment in my game. You have to remember, though. It is IMPOSSBILE to agree with your GM 100% of the time unless YOU ARE THE GM. People are people. Aspects of the game are subjects. Difference of opinion WILL happen. You elected to play with your GM. Now stand by that decision whether you agree with one or two of his calls, or not. Because you're always going to disagree with something he does. [/QUOTE]

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