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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5560487" data-attributes="member: 4937">Probably.That you address me in this way means that you have started off making some very wrong assumptions about me and my game, so many in fact that I won't have time to correct them all.  Some facts about my game though:a) I tend to in an average session expect more skill checks to be made that attack rolls.b) I play a low magic game.  The PC's in my current party have hit 4th level, and between them they have 2 magic weapons and no magic armor.   c) NPC spellcasters beyond the 7th level of ability are very rare.  In the current nation of 300,000 individuals, only 2 wizards, 1 shaman, and 1 cleric exceed that ability.  None are above 9th level.  Only one of those do I expect the PC's to interact with, and he's the BBEG.d) PC wizards gain no spells as a result of gaining levels.  Every spell they desire they must obtain through effort.e) Beyond the level of a few potions, scrolls, and inexpensive items that can be created by 3rd level wizards (like lamps that shed continual light) magic items are not purchable in my game. And yet, even with those as my default assumptions, I still contend that without rule changes from the RAW, skills are minor in scope and utility and would be vastly overshadowed by magic.  Because, as you yourself agree, "Spells can do all the above and more." Your wrong about how this ends up balancing on two basic counts.  First of all, it doesn't matter how abundant magic is in the world, it only matters how abundant it is in the party.  By 10th level or so, there is little that you can do with a skill that won't be overshadowed by what your colleague can do with magic.  Secondly, while its true that at low levels spell-casters depend more strongly on magic than martial classes, by 10th level or so the reverse becomes true.  Without magic no one can defend themselves, and its the spell-casters that are never without magic.  Thus, sticking to the RAW, at some point your low magic game starts to constrain those without magic even more than those with it.Just since we are laying out our credentials, I've been playing D&D since the early 80s.</blockquote>

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