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Tumble too powerful?
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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6181636" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>Well, at least we agree on something...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Once again, <strong>SHOW ME THE CHARACTER</strong>. The full character, stats, spellbook, wealth by level, equipment (including spells he had to pay for and encumbrance), skills, class, level, feats, spell load carried, at a mid level. I keep coming back to 7th level. Show me the Omnipotent Wizard you keep crowing about, unbeatable from L1 to present, built legally, with page and book references for each choice. That's about as clear as I can make it. A skeletal outline is not "a character". </p><p></p><p>In regards to the above, your skills will be especially interesting since you need to direct 4 skill points per level (16 at L1) to cross class skills. Assuming you start with an 18 INT, that leaves 2 skills you can max out, spellcraft presumably being one. I don't see those huge initiative bonuses you crowed about earlier either.</p><p></p><p>To the feats, I could one at L1, one at L3, a Wizard bonus at L5 and one at L6. That's four. You list five. BTW, how far from the rest of the group do you huddle, casting spells blindly? Not restricted to this build, but your general theory that the wizard is never targeted because he's some distance away and out of sight.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe you can spell out what "had 9s since L1" is intended to refer to. I rather suspect a very liberal (mis)read of some rules, yet again. Or maybe not - I'm with you, once again, on that last item. Oh, and depending on your strength and how many spellbooks your collection requires, as well as how many spells you wish to obtain beyond your 2 per level, I suggest your possessions may matter more than you assume.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>OK, let's make it easier for you. One: I do not believe you can target a spell blindly. If it has targets, you must see or touch them. Even Mindsight is clear that "the creature knows what square each thinking being is in, but it does not see the being". So you are down to areas. As noted previously for spreads, "Some effects, notably clouds and fogs, spread out from a point of origin, which must be a grid intersection. The effect can extend around corners and into areas that you can’t see." This indicates your point of origin must be visible to you. Guess what? That means your spotter is in the spread if it is to reach enemies beyond him.</p><p></p><p>THERE it is:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So when you are behind a corner, getting descriptions from other party members (or detecting intelligent targets by mindsight - which includes your teammates, by the way, although knowing type and intelligence should help in most cases), even if I accept you have a 100% perfect understanding of the area and its contents, you still cannot cast a spell around a corner. As is typically the case, the Omnipotent Wizard tends to result from a combination of favourable game style and a loose read, or simply ignoring, some of the rules.</p><p></p><p>To repeat the point made by another poster on another thread, where I felt a deja vu feeling, you saying it does not make it so.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6181636, member: 6681948"] Well, at least we agree on something... Once again, [B]SHOW ME THE CHARACTER[/B]. The full character, stats, spellbook, wealth by level, equipment (including spells he had to pay for and encumbrance), skills, class, level, feats, spell load carried, at a mid level. I keep coming back to 7th level. Show me the Omnipotent Wizard you keep crowing about, unbeatable from L1 to present, built legally, with page and book references for each choice. That's about as clear as I can make it. A skeletal outline is not "a character". In regards to the above, your skills will be especially interesting since you need to direct 4 skill points per level (16 at L1) to cross class skills. Assuming you start with an 18 INT, that leaves 2 skills you can max out, spellcraft presumably being one. I don't see those huge initiative bonuses you crowed about earlier either. To the feats, I could one at L1, one at L3, a Wizard bonus at L5 and one at L6. That's four. You list five. BTW, how far from the rest of the group do you huddle, casting spells blindly? Not restricted to this build, but your general theory that the wizard is never targeted because he's some distance away and out of sight. Maybe you can spell out what "had 9s since L1" is intended to refer to. I rather suspect a very liberal (mis)read of some rules, yet again. Or maybe not - I'm with you, once again, on that last item. Oh, and depending on your strength and how many spellbooks your collection requires, as well as how many spells you wish to obtain beyond your 2 per level, I suggest your possessions may matter more than you assume. OK, let's make it easier for you. One: I do not believe you can target a spell blindly. If it has targets, you must see or touch them. Even Mindsight is clear that "the creature knows what square each thinking being is in, but it does not see the being". So you are down to areas. As noted previously for spreads, "Some effects, notably clouds and fogs, spread out from a point of origin, which must be a grid intersection. The effect can extend around corners and into areas that you can’t see." This indicates your point of origin must be visible to you. Guess what? That means your spotter is in the spread if it is to reach enemies beyond him. THERE it is: So when you are behind a corner, getting descriptions from other party members (or detecting intelligent targets by mindsight - which includes your teammates, by the way, although knowing type and intelligence should help in most cases), even if I accept you have a 100% perfect understanding of the area and its contents, you still cannot cast a spell around a corner. As is typically the case, the Omnipotent Wizard tends to result from a combination of favourable game style and a loose read, or simply ignoring, some of the rules. To repeat the point made by another poster on another thread, where I felt a deja vu feeling, you saying it does not make it so. [/QUOTE]
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