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<blockquote data-quote="dcollins" data-source="post: 478162" data-attributes="member: 876">There is no difference. If it's not detailed in the rulebook, it's a house rule. The rules on DMG p. 242 are for use by DMs and not players (&quot;magic items you invent&quot;, referring to DMs on p. 243). Allowing PCs to arbitrarily design their own items is not part of the core rules. DMG p. 11: &quot;As DM, you get to make up your own spells, magic items, races, and monsters!&quot; All of those are what are commonly referred to as &quot;house rules&quot;.Finally, here's Monte Cook's comment on how to use that table on p. 242: &quot;But to answer the question we must discuss something about the question itself. The &quot;you&quot;in &quot;How do you figure Market Value?&quot; should ALWAYS be the DM. It should always be the last thing that's done in the process. Do not -- I repeat -- do not allow players to look at that table and see what they can make for X amount of gold...&quot;And, amusingly, the last entry on Monte's web page at&nbsp; <a href="http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly3.html" target="_blank">http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly3.html</a> specifically mentions a Tumble +10 item, at which Monte throws up his hands and refuses to even think about it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="dcollins, post: 478162, member: 876"] There is no difference. If it's not detailed in the rulebook, it's a house rule. The rules on DMG p. 242 are for use by DMs and not players ("magic items you invent", referring to DMs on p. 243). Allowing PCs to arbitrarily design their own items is [i]not[/i] part of the core rules. DMG p. 11: "As DM, you get to make up your own spells, magic items, races, and monsters!" All of those are what are commonly referred to as "house rules". Finally, here's Monte Cook's comment on how to use that table on p. 242: "But to answer the question we must discuss something about the question itself. The "you"in "How do you figure Market Value?" should ALWAYS be the DM. It should always be the last thing that's done in the process. Do not -- I repeat -- do not allow players to look at that table and see what they can make for X amount of gold..." And, amusingly, the last entry on Monte's web page at [url]http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly3.html[/url] specifically mentions a Tumble +10 item, at which Monte throws up his hands and refuses to even think about it. [/QUOTE]

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