Tumbling to flank

[Ruvion]

Today I ruled that if you are tumbling through a hostile square to flank, you do are not actually flanking until the following round (due to the difficulty of maneuvering through without provoking attack of opportunity you do not have the timing, presence of mind, or the orientation of where your body is facing to take advantage of flanking). Whereas if you advanced from the other side to flank or were tumbling around an opponent then you'd get the flanking bonus on the same round. Was this too harsh? The PHB is not overly detailed in this sort of thing.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Who is going to regularly tumble through an occupied square?

Monks and rogues.

Your ruling punishes players who invested several of their precious skill points in the tumble skill, clearly hurts two classes more than the others and mostly benefit nameless monsters who are usually the main victim of this tactic.

I don't think it's a good idea.

 

[MJEggertson]

I don't think its a good idea either. It punishes the two classes that depend on tactics and mobility...nullifying one of their greatest assets. Both classes usually need flanking bonuses, and if the PC puts hard-earned skill points into the tumble skill and wants to use it, I would not take it away.

-Mike

 

[MasterOfHeaven]

I agree that it's a bad idea. You should allow someone who Tumbles through the opponents square to get the flanking results.

 

[Ruvion]

You guys are right...but in this case, the rogue PC tried to tumble through a 5x5 doorway blocked by an NPC fighter. Maybe I should let the ruling stick for such special circumstances only.

Otherwise, I now see that it's taking something away from monks, rogues, and bards.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

If circumstances make the use of a skill particularly difficult you should increase the DC by using... well, circumstances modifier.

In your example, tough, the fighter was defending a 5 feet wide doorway. That's exactly the standard situation where you would want to tumble through someone instead of around. The DC was 25 and succeeding should have put the tumbler in flanking position immediately.

If it had been a 3 feet wide doorway (as in most houses), that would have made tumbling past the fighter more difficult than normal. In that case you would be justified to increase the DC.

 

[eXodus]

i am sorry but i think your ruling was wrong.

one of the main reasons to pump up your rogue's tumble skill is to allow such acrobatic feats. it is one of the things that makes the rogue what he is in combat. and to deny him that is a bit castrative.

sure it is a tough thing to combat as a dm, a pesky rogue tumbling all over the battlefield into flanking positions sneak attacking npcs and monsters.

but there are ways around it.

make the battlefield something tough to negotiate around, ie litter of barrels, planks, shrubbery, trees, stones, etc, etc, and more.

also if the pc rogue can do it why can't the badguys? i see no reason why not.

nothing would scare the living feces out of the party like a small cadre of fighter/rogues tumbling into the fray, flanking and sneak attacking with psychotic fury.

you know the old line:

what is good for the goose is good for the gander!

 

[Rashak Mani]

I would give the player the choice:

1 If he wants to flank the fighter right away in this very hard situation... then 25+5 = 30 difficulty

2 If he doesnt want risking so much he can have the DC 25 but he flanks only later.


Remember that he is tumbling in a tight situation... DC 25 would be in a "normal" situation. If the fighter is aware that someone will/may try to tumble then I would make it even harder.

 

[Madfox]

In Songs&Silence the optional rule to make tumbling an opposed check is suggested. I do not have the book at hand, so I do not know what skill they suggest as being the opposite. Somehow I do feel for this...

 

[el Voz]

I agree with exodus. It is wrong to hinder a players strategy is such an obvious manner. If someone puts skills into tumbling then they know how to not be disoriented when they are done.