Turn (other than undead) creature

[Sinistar]

I have a player with the Moon domain from FRCS. She has the ability to turn Lycanthropes as if they were undead. There are several domains that give this sort of ability. The different elemental domains allow you to turn the various elementals. I have also seen different prestige classes with the ability to turn demons.

In each of these cases, if the creature is "destroyed" by the turn attempt they are sent back to their home plane. What happens to the Lycanthrope? He is native, so he can't be sent anywhere. Does a good turn check kill the lycanthrope?

I can't find good rules on this, and it will probably happen this next Friday (running through Speaker in Dreams), so I would appreciate any rule information.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Killing Lycanthropes is one possibility and probably the one best supported by the rules.

You could also have it stun or paralyze the lycanthropes for 10 rounds but that would be a house rule.

Note that the elemental turning abilities grant the ability to turn elemental subtype creatures--not just elementals. This question is likely to come up the first time a 14th level water domain cleric runs into a remorhaz for instance.

I have a player with the Moon domain from FRCS. She has the ability to turn Lycanthropes as if they were undead. There are several domains that give this sort of ability. The different elemental domains allow you to turn the various elementals. I have also seen different prestige classes with the ability to turn demons.

In each of these cases, if the creature is "destroyed" by the turn attempt they are sent back to their home plane. What happens to the Lycanthrope? He is native, so he can't be sent anywhere. Does a good turn check kill the lycanthrope?

I can't find good rules on this, and it will probably happen this next Friday (running through Speaker in Dreams), so I would appreciate any rule information.

 

[Sinistar]

That is what I thought, and it is probably not too powerful, though the ability to instant kill a creature half your hit die seems a bit rough.

For my house rule though, I think it is going to cure lycanthopy. But that is just for the game I want to run. I wanted to know the official rule.

Thanks Elder-Basilisk

 

[AuraSeer]

In each of these cases, if the creature is "destroyed" by the turn attempt they are sent back to their home plane.

Are you sure about that? It's true for summoned creatures, which always go home when beaten, but "destroying" a called or native creature should actually kill it.

The domains section of the SRD seems to indicate that turning a subtype acts just like turning undead: weak creatures are actually destroyed. Unless I've missed a rule someplace, a Moon cleric can instakill lycanthropes, and a Water cleric can instakill red dragons. That doesn't seem overpowered to me, since it only works on creatures that are much weaker than the cleric to begin with.

 

[jgsugden]

First of all, these abilities tend to be a bit overpowered. Most undead of CR 3 or higher have a turn resistance. They did not bother to give elementals, lycanthropes, etc ... a turn resistance ability. As a result, these creatures tend to be a bit too easy to turn. I suggest, as a house rule, that you give creatures with a CR between 3 and 8 a turn resistance of +2 and creatures with a CR of 9 to 20 a +4 turn resistance.

Second, undead and outsiders that are destroyed in 3.0 and 3.5 core rules are permanently dead. They are not sent back to a different plane. That was changed between 2E and 3.0. If you turn a small fire elemental or skieleton and get a 'destroyed' result, the foe is permanently defeated.

The moon domain's ability to turn or destroy lycanthropes is a bit harsh if strictly interpreted. A very good (in terms of alignment) character may be completely destroyed by a good cleric is that character has been bitten by a wererat. This doens't seem to mesh well with my ideas of a priest that opposes lycanthropes.

I'd recommend a house rule that only natural lycanthropes can be destroyed. Infected lycanthropes can either be cured or paralyzed by the turning attempt.

 

[AuraSeer]

I don't like the idea of giving everything turn resistance. Powerful undead need it because they usually have low HD for their CR; most of their challenge comes from their special abilities. Without turn resistance, they would almost always be turned by a cleric of appropriate level.

That doesn't apply to the elemental creatures. Most of them are melee types which rely on high hit points, so they're already very hard to turn. An elder elemental is only CR 11 but has 24 HD; if you added turn resistance on top of that, an 11th-level cleric would have no chance of turning it ever. If all elemental creatures got resistance, the domain ability would be pretty much useless.

Add turn resistance to special encounters, and to monsters with low HD for their CR, but don't just assign it to everything.