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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 2818659" data-attributes="member: 4722">Okay, so I swapped Fort and Will saves, and kept the basic formula the same - a Will save vs. DC 10+1/2 cleric's level+Cha mod. I gave the cleric a +2 Cha bonus, across the board - I didn't want to try figuring out when he would gain bonuses. Edit: I screwed up. I used the Fort save modified by Wis, instead of the straight Fort save, cause I wasn't paying attention. Everything from here below is working off the revised sheets.The sheet now has 6 pages - High Fort (official and UK CRs), Low Fort (same), and for S&G, I did Low Will. Using high Fort save won't work - the numbers are all over the place. The official CRs are just too low across the board. Strangely enough, with UK's CRs, they form an inverse bell curve - low-level unintelligent undead have a save of 12, then it drops to 6-8 until you hit CR 10, when they go back to 9-11.Low Fort could work if you use the official CRs - all of them, except for a few odd templates, are in the 9-11 range. UK's CRs do the bell curve thing again - up to CR 2 is 10, then it drops to 6-8, then it goes back up to 9-11, with the odd exception here and there.Low Will surprised me. With the official CRs, the numbers are consistent - 8-11, then they drop to 4-6 over CR 12. UK's are slightly higher for the low-end undead (12), then even out and remain 9-11 the rest of the way except for a couple odd templates (lich, vampire elite).  Of them all, then, I'd go with Low Will, simply because the average is closest to 10 (the ideal number).This would, of couse, necessitate swapping Fort and Will saves, which is the only problem here. It would require a major rewrite of the system - there are a huge amount of undead out there, and swapping Fort and Will saves for all of them would be an equally huge task. Maybe it'll happen for 4E, but I won't hold my breath.</blockquote>

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