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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Exen Trik" data-source="post: 3469236" data-attributes="member: 34942">Interesting... It is nonlinear but scales up a bit too strongly. A 20th level caster with maxed out mana would barely cast one 40ft radius spell, certainly they aren't quite *that* good. Opposite problem with small spells, a strong 10ft spell that becomes twice as big is worth more than a few mana. Sometimes you don't even want all that area, especially in close quarters.Perhaps a better approach is to consider what an average series of spells would look like, and base mana costs around that.I'll set up a fireball series as so:1st tier: 10 ft radius, 2d6 damage, Reflex DC 10 + 1/2 CL + Mod2nd tier: 20 ft radius, 5d6 damage, Reflex DC 11 + 1/2 CL + Mod3rd tier: 30 ft radius, 10d6 damage, Reflex DC 12 + 1/2 CL + ModWe know that mana costs need to be nonlinear, since area and damage are nonlinear increases. Not sure about save DC though, I think that is linear, but its basically negligible at these values. The first tier blasting spell should be castable for a first level magic user once or twice a day, maybe three with high stats. If mana is equivalent to hp, that means a value of between 4 and 6, so lets go with 5.I'd like for each spell to have some kind of value, even if stronger versions of it are gained. If the 2nd tier is twice as mana, than the first tier is mostly useless, unless you have very weak or near dead targets. If it is three times the cost, than the first spell is just barely more damage/mp efficient to one target after 3 rounds. At four times the cost, you might consider picking off enemies with the first spell instead of blasting them with the second, getting 60% more bang for your buck. So that would be 20 mana, which a 10th level magic user could cast 3-5 times. After bonuses to damage, that sounds just about rightThe next spell is a around a doubling in area and damage from the last. Following the reasoning from the last spell, a doubling from the last spell is clearly too cheap, but four times  means casting the last spell two times is twice as cost effective after only two rounds against single targets or small groups. Three times the cost a better fit, with 2nd tier being 50% more damage for the same cost after 3 rounds, so 60 mana looks about right. That can be cast 2 or 3 times by a 20th level magic user, and could be probably doubled in damage by then.5 mana, 20 mana, 60 mana... it's a start I guess. I think my reasoning is sound, but let me know if any of you disagree. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> One thing I forgot to mention is that casters aren't completely reliant on one ability score, Int is used for most Ref and Fort save spells, Wis for healing and Will save spells, and Cha is for mana bonuses. So, one stat doesn't rule them all. That doesn't do anything to solve the problem, but at least a more spread out stat build is a viable option. Alternatively, I could remove damage bonuses from stats and make them class features only. It might leave to much importance on Cha... but Int and Wis still have skills and saves in their favor, so that may just work out.</blockquote>

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