CuriousBard
First Post
Yes, I like the 'rewrite' you've posted, much better. Plus it's probably clearer than what I wrote.
What does everyone think of it? Workable? Flawed?
What does everyone think of it? Workable? Flawed?
Turning Mechanic
Infinite Monkey
First Post
I like this a lot. Its simple, it works the same as the rest of D&D, I only have to roll once and I don't have to look up a table. Nice.
XCorvis
First Post
One problem I see is that a high level cleric trying to turn a high HD undead creature could wind up giving it an obscene penalty to all actions.
When Bob tries to turn an 8 HD zombie (who fails his will save), he ends up giving it a -7 penalty to ALL ROLLS! Yikes! That means even though he hasn't turned it, he's basically rendered it helpless. Imagine a party with a 16th level cleric going up against a 16 HD lich - the lich is going to wind up with a minimum -8 penalty (minus turn resist, plus Cha, if any) when the cleric tries to turn it. This is if he succeeds his save too. Not good.
My suggestion is keep the mechanic for turn/destroy, but make the penalty static - perhaps equal to the Clerics Cha modifier (or just the -2 for being demoralized). (Basically, the penalty is unrelated to the sucess of the turn/fail of the save.)
BTW: I really like the +2 DC bonus for using a second turn attempt. Good thinking.
When Bob tries to turn an 8 HD zombie (who fails his will save), he ends up giving it a -7 penalty to ALL ROLLS! Yikes! That means even though he hasn't turned it, he's basically rendered it helpless. Imagine a party with a 16th level cleric going up against a 16 HD lich - the lich is going to wind up with a minimum -8 penalty (minus turn resist, plus Cha, if any) when the cleric tries to turn it. This is if he succeeds his save too. Not good.
My suggestion is keep the mechanic for turn/destroy, but make the penalty static - perhaps equal to the Clerics Cha modifier (or just the -2 for being demoralized). (Basically, the penalty is unrelated to the sucess of the turn/fail of the save.)
BTW: I really like the +2 DC bonus for using a second turn attempt. Good thinking.
Infinite Monkey
First Post
Point taken. How about this.
Clerics (and paladins at -2 levels) can call forth the power of their god to turn (or rebuke) undead. They can do this once per day per level +Cha modifier.
All undead within 30 ft must make a Will save (DC 10 + Cha mod). The cleric can use more than one turn attempt in order to increase the DC by +2 per turn attempt used beyond the first (so using 3 'charges' would give DC 10 + 4 + Cha mod).
There are several effects for any undead that fail their save. First they get a penalty to all rolls equal to the clerics Cha mod - undeads turn resistance (if any). Also, if the penalty + Clerics level (i.e. cleric level + Cha mod - turn resistance) is greater than or equal to the undeads hit dice it is forced to run away. If the penalty + Clerics level is greater than or equal to twice the undeads hit dice the undead is destroyed.
If the undead make the save then there is no effect.
Example: Bob, our 4th level cleric with a 16 Chr (+3), holds forth his holy symbol and calls down heavenly power to Turn the ghouls facing him. Every undead within 30ft of Bob must make a Will save vs DC 13 (10 + 3 Chr mod). Or if Bob prefers he can expend extra Turn Charges to increase the DC by +2 per extra Turn. Any undead that fail the save get -3 to all rolls (3 Cha mod). Also, because the penalty plus the clerics level (4 + 3 = 7) is greater than their hit dice, they are forced to run away. Any ghoul that makes its Will save is unaffected.
NOTE I can't remember if ghouls have turn resistance, which would change the above example
Clerics (and paladins at -2 levels) can call forth the power of their god to turn (or rebuke) undead. They can do this once per day per level +Cha modifier.
All undead within 30 ft must make a Will save (DC 10 + Cha mod). The cleric can use more than one turn attempt in order to increase the DC by +2 per turn attempt used beyond the first (so using 3 'charges' would give DC 10 + 4 + Cha mod).
There are several effects for any undead that fail their save. First they get a penalty to all rolls equal to the clerics Cha mod - undeads turn resistance (if any). Also, if the penalty + Clerics level (i.e. cleric level + Cha mod - turn resistance) is greater than or equal to the undeads hit dice it is forced to run away. If the penalty + Clerics level is greater than or equal to twice the undeads hit dice the undead is destroyed.
If the undead make the save then there is no effect.
Example: Bob, our 4th level cleric with a 16 Chr (+3), holds forth his holy symbol and calls down heavenly power to Turn the ghouls facing him. Every undead within 30ft of Bob must make a Will save vs DC 13 (10 + 3 Chr mod). Or if Bob prefers he can expend extra Turn Charges to increase the DC by +2 per extra Turn. Any undead that fail the save get -3 to all rolls (3 Cha mod). Also, because the penalty plus the clerics level (4 + 3 = 7) is greater than their hit dice, they are forced to run away. Any ghoul that makes its Will save is unaffected.
NOTE I can't remember if ghouls have turn resistance, which would change the above example
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