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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 8979526" data-attributes="member: 20323">I should have given an example! I'll give 2: one for ambush and one for trap.The idea is that the Perception Save = Danger Perception specifically and exclusively. And that the GM would already be narrating the threat, so there would not be a case of a blind &quot;Roll a Perception save&quot; out of nowhere and everyone going &quot;uh, what? why?&quot; IOW, just like other saving throws, you'd only roll a Perception save once the poopoo hit the fan.Ambush Example:GM: &quot;A cacophony of sneering voices echoes from the canyon walls of the forest above you, followed by the twang of bowstrings. The goblins throw off their cloaks made of willow leaves and attack! And attack!&quot;Ranger Player: &quot;Ahhh! I knew there was something off about bushes made of willow leaves, I was just so focused on making sure the druid could find mistletoe to harvest...&quot;GM: (roll 13 for the Stealth of the goblins) &quot;Everyone roll a Perception save DC 13 to determine which of you are&nbsp; surprised.&quot;Ranger Player: &quot;Does Natural Explorer help me out here? Forests are my happy place.&quot;GM: &quot;Yep, you double the proficiency bonus added to your Perception save. Since you're 3rd level, that means you get +4 from your proficiency bonus to Perception instead of just +2.&quot;Trap Example:GM: &quot;All of the torch sconces you've seen have metalwork dragon mouths from which the flames lick out. However there are a pair of torches at the end of this hall which are canted out more than the other sconces, and the 'jaws' of the dragon maw are closer together so it's screening or reducing their brightness.&quot;Wizard Player: &quot;I'm going to use mage hand and see if I can move either of those two torches. Like lift them out of the sconce or twist them.&quot;GM: &quot;Sure, looks like the should be able to be pushed back toward the wall to be more flush like the other torches - but your mage hand only lifts 5 pounds? It's not enough force to seriously move them.&quot;Fighter Player: &quot;Do the flagstones still have that weird half-inch seam in between them like we saw in the last room?&quot;GM: &quot;Yes.&quot;Rogue Player: &quot;Let me try to lasso one. Basically, I want to create a rope leverage system so that I could lasso one of the weird sconces, and then yank from a distance so I don't have to be between the torches when I try this.&quot;GM: &quot;Ok, well, you'll need to be a little forward from the rest of the party right now, right at the entrance to the hallway. Is that good?&quot;Rogue Player: &quot;Sure.&quot; GM: &quot;When you take just that one step forward you feel the flagstone beneath your foot drop just a sliver, but enough to send a shiver up your leg. All of you hear a roaring sound like a fireball or a dragon's exhalation coming from all sides of the hallway. Everyone give me a DC 15 Perception save to determine which of you can take a quick reaction to the trap begin triggered.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 8979526, member: 20323"] I should have given an example! I'll give 2: one for ambush and one for trap. The idea is that the Perception Save = [I]Danger [/I]Perception specifically and exclusively. And that the GM would already be narrating the threat, so there would not be a case of a blind "Roll a Perception save" out of nowhere and everyone going "uh, what? why?" IOW, just like other saving throws, you'd only roll a Perception save once the poopoo hit the fan. [B]Ambush Example:[/B] GM: [I]"A cacophony of sneering voices echoes from the canyon walls of the forest above you, followed by the twang of bowstrings. The goblins throw off their cloaks made of willow leaves and attack! And attack!"[/I] Ranger Player: [I]"Ahhh! I knew there was something off about bushes made of willow leaves, I was just so focused on making sure the druid could find mistletoe to harvest..."[/I] GM: (roll 13 for the Stealth of the goblins) [I]"Everyone roll a Perception save DC 13 to determine which of you are surprised."[/I] Ranger Player: [I]"Does Natural Explorer help me out here? Forests are my happy place."[/I] GM: [I]"Yep, you double the proficiency bonus added to your Perception save. Since you're 3rd level, that means you get +4 from your proficiency bonus to Perception instead of just +2."[/I] [B]Trap Example:[/B] GM: [I]"All of the torch sconces you've seen have metalwork dragon mouths from which the flames lick out. However there are a pair of torches at the end of this hall which are canted out more than the other sconces, and the 'jaws' of the dragon maw are closer together so it's screening or reducing their brightness."[/I] Wizard Player: [I]"I'm going to use mage hand and see if I can move either of those two torches. Like lift them out of the sconce or twist them."[/I] GM: [I]"Sure, looks like the should be able to be pushed back toward the wall to be more flush like the other torches - but your mage hand only lifts 5 pounds? It's not enough force to seriously move them."[/I] Fighter Player: [I]"Do the flagstones still have that weird half-inch seam in between them like we saw in the last room?"[/I] GM: [I]"Yes."[/I] Rogue Player: [I]"Let me try to lasso one. Basically, I want to create a rope leverage system so that I could lasso one of the weird sconces, and then yank from a distance so I don't have to be between the torches when I try this."[/I] GM: [I]"Ok, well, you'll need to be a little forward from the rest of the party right now, right at the entrance to the hallway. Is that good?"[/I] Rogue Player: [I]"Sure." [/I] GM: [I]"When you take just that one step forward you feel the flagstone beneath your foot drop just a sliver, but enough to send a shiver up your leg. All of you hear a roaring sound like a fireball or a dragon's exhalation coming from all sides of the hallway. Everyone give me a DC 15 Perception save to determine which of you can take a quick reaction to the trap begin triggered."[/I] [/QUOTE]

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