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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 8979609" data-attributes="member: 97077">I should probably note that I can almost see doing surprise as a save, but as I said I don't really like saves in general, and there may be some unintended rules interactions that would just create more work I wouldn't want to do. I'm at least open to that idea.For exploration challenges, the easiest consequence is time, when time is a limited resource (which it almost always is in my games). You fail, you spend 10 minutes and turn up nothing. We're 10 minutes closer to the doom clock chiming or to a wandering monster check. Want to keep searching?Depending on the context, other consequences can be setting off the trap or making noise sufficient to draw unwanted attention. If you want to avoid a situation where simply rolling tips the player off about something maybe being there (I don't care, but some people do), there's always progress combined with a setback - &quot;you find the trap, by standing on the pressure plate... if you move, the trap will go off. What do you do?&quot; Or, the PC finds the secret door and accidentally triggers it, making a loud grinding sound that echoes through the dungeon as it opens. A nearby monster is alerted and moves to investigate.The way I present the environment is that there's the level at which anyone can notice anything. Embedded in that description are clues that suggest there's more to it. If you want to uncover what those clues mean, you'll have to Do Stuff, and that's going to take time and/or other resources and have some risk or cost. So declare your actions well because they matter!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="iserith, post: 8979609, member: 97077"] I should probably note that I can almost see doing surprise as a save, but as I said I don't really like saves in general, and there may be some unintended rules interactions that would just create more work I wouldn't want to do. I'm at least open to that idea. For exploration challenges, the easiest consequence is time, when time is a limited resource (which it almost always is in my games). You fail, you spend 10 minutes and turn up nothing. We're 10 minutes closer to the doom clock chiming or to a wandering monster check. Want to keep searching? Depending on the context, other consequences can be setting off the trap or making noise sufficient to draw unwanted attention. If you want to avoid a situation where simply rolling tips the player off about something maybe being there (I don't care, but some people do), there's always progress combined with a setback - "you find the trap, by standing on the pressure plate... if you move, the trap will go off. What do you do?" Or, the PC finds the secret door and accidentally triggers it, making a loud grinding sound that echoes through the dungeon as it opens. A nearby monster is alerted and moves to investigate. The way I present the environment is that there's the level at which anyone can notice anything. Embedded in that description are clues that suggest there's more to it. If you want to uncover what those clues mean, you'll have to Do Stuff, and that's going to take time and/or other resources and have some risk or cost. So declare your actions well because they matter! [/QUOTE]

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