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<blockquote data-quote="nharwell" data-source="post: 525012" data-attributes="member: 1099">Because they are lame <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; Note the requirement for Animal Defiance is the ability to cast Detect Plants or Animals. That limits the ability to Rangers and Druids -- who (1) have Animal Empathy, (2) can also cast Speak with Animals and Hold Animal, and (3) will generally have very little reason to &quot;turn&quot; animals.&nbsp; So this feat is almost useless except as the prereq for Animal Control.Animal Control also requires the ability to cast Speak with Animals and Animal Friendship.&nbsp; Once again, if you have these spells you probably don't need this feat. Moreover, any animal you control with it counts against the hit dice limit for Animal Friendship! Any rangers and druids who have their max animal companions (most, in my experience) will never be able to use this feat.&nbsp; These feats need some serious revising to make them useful or weaker prereqs so that non-Druids/Rangers can take them -- as it stands, the feats are useless for the only characters who can qualify for them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="nharwell, post: 525012, member: 1099"] Because they are lame :) Note the requirement for Animal Defiance is the ability to cast Detect Plants or Animals. That limits the ability to Rangers and Druids -- who (1) have Animal Empathy, (2) can also cast Speak with Animals and Hold Animal, and (3) will generally have very little reason to "turn" animals. So this feat is almost useless except as the prereq for Animal Control. Animal Control also requires the ability to cast Speak with Animals and Animal Friendship. Once again, if you have these spells you probably don't need this feat. Moreover, any animal you control with it counts against the hit dice limit for Animal Friendship! Any rangers and druids who have their max animal companions (most, in my experience) will never be able to use this feat. These feats need some serious revising to make them useful or weaker prereqs so that non-Druids/Rangers can take them -- as it stands, the feats are useless for the only characters who can qualify for them. [/QUOTE]

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