Turning Undead clarification

[jontherev]

Ok, I've never played a cleric and now I'm dming, so I'm a little confused.

Let's say we have a 5th level cleric with an item similar to the Phylactery of Undead-Turning, except it only adds +2 (instead of +4) to his effective turning level. He rolls a total of 16 on his turning check, which results in his being able to turn undead with up to 9 HD (5+2+2).

Ok, now he rolls damage. He rolls a 7 from the dice + 3 for charisma + 2 for the item = 12. Now the question I am wondering, is does he also get to add the bonus from his turning check (the extra +2) to this damage roll?

Thanks!

 

[Pyrex]

It's a little ugly.

First, the item.

Phylactery of Undead Turning
This item is a boon to any character able to turn undead, allowing him to do so as if his class level were four levels higher than it actually is.

First thing is your CHA check, which as you noted, gives you a result of 9HD, meaning undead up to 4HD are destroyed, and 5HD->9HD are turned.

Next you roll for turning damage, which is 2d6 + (effective*) Cleric Level + ChaMod.

In your case that's 2d6 + 7(5 + 2 for the Phylactery) + 3 (Cha) == 17HD.

You now apply the appropriate effect to up to 17HD worth of undead starting with those closest to your Cleric.

*The turning check doesn't affect you "effective Cleric level", all it does is tells you is what the largest HD of undead you can affect is. "effective Cleric level" is modified by things like the Phylactery, or being a Paladin instead of a Cleric. (Paladins have an "effective Cleric Level" of their Paladin level -4)

 

[Amitiel]

No, the first roll only determines a Maximum HD for individual undead affected. The Damage roll determines the total HD affected. Using your roll for example.

16 on his turning check, 9 HD.

This is tha maximum HD of each undead affected.

You messed up your damage roll though.

7 from the dice + 3 for charisma + 2 for the item = 12

Unless your cleric levels are in that 7 it should be

Dice 7 + Levels 7 (5+2 item) + 3 cha =17

Your turning affects 17 HD worth of creatures but creatures with more than 9 HD are unaffected by the turning.

If you ran into a 6 shadows (3HD) and made this roll you would turn only 5 (total HD 15) as you would be 1 short to turn the last one.

But running into a Dread Wraith (16HD) with this roll you would fail to turn it because although you turned 17HD of creatures you only can only affect up to a 9HD creature with the check.

 

[jontherev]

No, the first roll only determines a Maximum HD for individual undead affected. The Damage roll determines the total HD affected. Using your roll for example.



This is tha maximum HD of each undead affected.

You messed up your damage roll though.


Unless your cleric levels are in that 7 it should be

Dice 7 + Levels 7 (5+2 item) + 3 cha =17

Your turning affects 17 HD worth of creatures but creatures with more than 9 HD are unaffected by the turning.

If you ran into a 6 shadows (3HD) and made this roll you would turn only 5 (total HD 15) as you would be 1 short to turn the last one.

But running into a Dread Wraith (16HD) with this roll you would fail to turn it because although you turned 17HD of creatures you only can only affect up to a 9HD creature with the check.

Thanks for both responses. If I've got this right, then would 5 of the shadows in your example be destroyed, OR do they count as 6 HD for purposes of destroying them, and therefore you'd only destroy 2 of them, and then turn a 3rd. OR, do you get a choice of whether to turn or destroy them?

 

[Pyrex]

Shadows are 3HD, with Turn Resistance +2, meaning that for turning purposes they're effectively 5HD.

If you roll 9HD on your turn check, you can only destroy undead who are 4HD or less, so the shadows would be turned, not destroyed.

Furthermore, because they're effectively 5HD thanks to their turn resistance, if you rolled 17HD worth of "turning damage" you could only turn three of them (5 x 3 = 15), the remaining 2hd of turning damage would be wasted.

In any case, you wouldn't have a choice between turned/destroyed; it's simply a function of your roll.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you roll 9HD on your turn check, you can only destroy undead who are 4HD or less, so the shadows would be turned, not destroyed.

Your turn check is irrelevant in this case - it's your cleric level. Which is effectively 7, so he only destroys undead with three HD or less.

A 10th level cleric who somehow rolled a 0 or lower on his turning check can only turn creatures with 6HD or less. The shadows are effectively 5HD creatures for this purpose, so they're affected. If he has twice as many levels as their HD, they're destroyed; his level is 10, their HD are effectively 5, so they are destroyed... even though his turning check was only barely sufficient to affect them at all.

-Hyp.

 

[jontherev]

Shadows are 3HD, with Turn Resistance +2, meaning that for turning purposes they're effectively 5HD.

If you roll 9HD on your turn check, you can only destroy undead who are 4HD or less, so the shadows would be turned, not destroyed.

Furthermore, because they're effectively 5HD thanks to their turn resistance, if you rolled 17HD worth of "turning damage" you could only turn three of them (5 x 3 = 15), the remaining 2hd of turning damage would be wasted.

In any case, you wouldn't have a choice between turned/destroyed; it's simply a function of your roll.

Thanks, but I'm still wondering about how to determine how many are destroyed. Forget about the Turn Resistance for a moment, and let's say they were 3 HD. How many would have been destroyed in this example? 2 destroyed and 1 turned, or 5 destroyed? Thanks.

 

[jontherev]

Your turn check is irrelevant in this case - it's your cleric level. Which is effectively 7, so he only destroys undead with three HD or less.

A 10th level cleric who somehow rolled a 0 or lower on his turning check can only turn creatures with 6HD or less. The shadows are effectively 5HD creatures for this purpose, so they're affected. If he has twice as many levels as their HD, they're destroyed; his level is 10, their HD are effectively 5, so they are destroyed... even though his turning check was only barely sufficient to affect them at all.

-Hyp.

Ah-ha. That makes sense. Thanks. I've got the hang of it now. I'll have to give the cleric the bad news.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Basically, turning happens in three stages.

1. Which creatures can I affect?

This is your turning check, and it gives you a hit die figure (your effective level plus the modifier from the table) that sets an upper limit on which undead are susceptible to the attempt (based on their hit dice plus TR).

2. Which of those creatures do I affect?

This is your damage check, and it gives you a certain number of hit dice - as each undead creature is ticked off as affected or not, add up the hit dice until you run out of turning damage, basically.

3. What happens to those creatures?

Compare their hit dice (+ TR) to your (effective) cleric level. If it's half or less, they're destroyed. If it's more than half, they're turned.

-Hyp.

 

[jontherev]

Basically, turning happens in three stages.

1. Which creatures can I affect?

This is your turning check, and it gives you a hit die figure (your effective level plus the modifier from the table) that sets an upper limit on which undead are susceptible to the attempt (based on their hit dice plus TR).

2. Which of those creatures do I affect?

This is your damage check, and it gives you a certain number of hit dice - as each undead creature is ticked off as affected or not, add up the hit dice until you run out of turning damage, basically.

3. What happens to those creatures?

Compare their hit dice (+ TR) to your (effective) cleric level. If it's half or less, they're destroyed. If it's more than half, they're turned.

-Hyp.

Excellent!!! Thanks...this makes turning much easier to understand...why didn't they spell it out like this in the PHB?